BP/PYRO RS question

[BKE]

Morning all, would like to hear your opinions on the use of the PYRO-RS vs BP in a T/C Hawken 50 cal. I ask because as I mentioned in my other(my only) post that locally I have only the option of RS from Wally- World but can drive a bit over an hour to a B-Pro shop that carries GOEX FFG or....I do have the funds if it's really more beneficial to order on-line (suckey HM charge and all). Thought I was going to go the RS route until reading in the mis-fire post that it is much more corrosive that BP and that the hot soapy water cleaning method might not be as effective(may require more detailed method)if firing RS. The mention that the RS can turn to a sludgey goo didn't sound at all appealing to me. Thanks in advance for any and all replies.

 

[PaulN/KS]

When we started with muzzleloaders we used pyro in the caplocks and it was OK...
As we got into flintlocks we had to get real BP,which works well for both, so that's what we buy now. I had good groups with the pyro and don't recall any ignition problems but YMMV... :hmm:

 

[David W.]

Many moons ago when Pyrodex first came out, I purchased two pounds and thought I would give it a whirl. It foulded much more than real BP. I did not like that and went back to the real thing.

Some people like Pyrodex, but not me. Yes, it is more corrosive! It also emmits percholates when fired, which is highly toxic.

Something elso you may not be aware of is the Pyrodex you buy at Wally World has the haz mat charges already applied.

I believe you will be more satisfied with real BP. If you load PRB's, use FFFg at 10% less than you would with FFG.

If you really want to save, go to Powder, Inc or Maine Powder House and order 25#. The powder cost includes haz mat and shipping.

 

[tv_racin_fan]

True black ignites easier and even when you make the Pyrodex work with a #11 cap it might well be just that touch slower than BP. I have some Pyrodex and am not afraid to use it in a percussion firearm simply because it is easier to get than BP but I would prefer BP everytime.

I can get 5 lbs of true black delivered to the house cheaper than I can buy 5lbs of Pyrodex at Wal Mart and if I order 10 or more it is even cheaper.

 

[RADeO]

I'll cast another for real black powder! :thumbsup:
It is not all that hard to come by and in quantity is much cheaper than any of the substitutes. Plus, it never degrades as do the subs.

If you try it, you'll probably stay with real BP. In my experience the BP fouling is easier to clean more completely than is the Pyrodex residue.

 

[BrownBear]

I went through a long spell when black powder dried up locally. Still not easy to get, by any means.

That forced me to get really acquainted with Pyrodex in both granulations. I'm actually glad it happened, because I solved all sorts of quirks and kinks to my satisfaction. If I ever get into a bind, I can go right back to it with minimal learning curve.

I guess that's the most important point. Pyrodex works, but it's a little more quirky. I'm more of a preparedness freak than most folks, so I think it's important to know how to use different kinds of stuff. I'd encourage you to work with both.

But black powder is easier to use, from cleaning to shooting. If you're sure your access to black powder will remain good, you won't regret using it instead. But if that ever dries up, you will be learning how to use Pyrodex in one big hurry.

Gotta say though, that in my 50's Pyrodex P always gave better accuracy and ignition than Pyrodex RS. Maybe not coincidentally, my rifles are happier with Goex 3f than with Goex 2f. Others will tell you the opposite, and hopefully it's their rifles doing the talking. Get a can of each and try them, and let your own rifle choose.

 

[larry wv]

I have used a fair amount of pyrodex in cap guns. And it is ok to shoot but I don't hunt with it. AS said it takes more cleaning. Larry

 

[rafterob]

With good cleaning and maintenance the Pyro will work just fine for you. You will typically be more likely to experience a misfire with pyro however. If you will be shooting alot, break down and mail order some real black powder. If you are only an occaisional shooter, use what you can get conveniently.

 

[Little Wattsy]

I have ONLY ever used Pyro RS and like it....Not speaking ill of "real BP" but Pyro is NO problems to shoot or clean and accuracy is good in a variety of guns....
To me the bigger differance would be A) the cost B) availability c)How much you wanted to "stock pile" for there, I understand, real BP might have a noteable advantage....?????

 

[Kentuckywindage]

RS is very reliable, cleaner than BP in my rifles and much easier to get locally. Its perfect in my sidelocks too. I like to use a Spitfire nipple that has a hollow base in it, Most times i just modify my original nipple and make it look like the spitfire. RS will serve you well :thumbsup:

As for pyro being bad for your health, more corrosive than any other powder, Bull manure! We all know what to do at the end of the day with our rifles.

 

[tv_racin_fan]

Ever seen Pyrodex in a metal container?

My understanding is PYRODEX is corrosive when it goes into the bore and corrosive the whole time it sits there and the residue left after shooting is corrosive. True black powder isn't. Pyrodex also can go bad from moisture in the air and no amount of drying it is gonna help it while "true black" can get soupy wet and when it dries it is good as new. Fact is when ya make true black you wet it down and press it to make a cake then crush that and sift to get the granulation you need.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

actually yes i have seen pyrodex in a metal can, back when they first came out they were sold in cans that look like todays goex cans.

Plastic is cheaper. They also have pressure ratings on todays plastic cans to keep the granade effect from happening.

Moisture will ruin black powder if its exposed to it. Hence * My flinter didnt go off because it had soaked up moisture and was soaking wet!!* Been there, done that.. Pyrodex, T7, ect wont be hurt if the powder is stored in its original can.

 

[fitter]

I wouldn't listen to a word he says.Kentucky windage that is.

 

[larry wv]

Pyrodex isn't as bad as a lot of people say. That said I use Goex 2-3f for my flinters and hunting. Larry Wv

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I wouldn't listen to a word he says.Kentucky windage that is.

Mind explaining?

 

[David W.]

RS is very reliable, cleaner than BP in my rifles and much easier to get locally. Its perfect in my sidelocks too. I like to use a Spitfire nipple that has a hollow base in it, Most times i just modify my original nipple and make it look like the spitfire. RS will serve you well :thumbsup:

As for pyro being bad for your health, more corrosive than any other powder, Bull manure! We all know what to do at the end of the day with our rifles.

Excuse me, not bull manure! Pyrodex emits percholates when fired. That means if you breathe the smoke after it is fired, you are breathing highly toxic percholrates. Cleaning is not an issue as far as percholates is concerned.

If your flinter powder is getting soaking wet, you probably need to use a cow's knee. One can not use pyrodex in a flinter, so that point is moot anyway.

Where does the information come from that storing any propellent/explosive in a plastic container eliminates the grenade effect?

I still have a couple of cans of BP dated from the 60's and it is still in original condition. I do not think Pyrodex can make that claim.

Purchased in quanities, BP is one heck of a lot cheaper than Pyrodex.

Pyrodex IS NOT cleaner than real BP. This old timer has used both and has spent more time cleaning Pyrodex crud.

I rest my case! :grin:

 

[gordy]

To me! We as muzzleloader shooters should try our best to use only BP. The idea that Pyrodex is as good as BP in the old style weapons is so much advertising hype. As was mentioned by others here , The ignition tempeture of Pyrodex is too high to work in flinters. Pyrodex is somwhere around 700degrees whike BP is about 480 degrees.If more and more folks go to the subs. It won't be long before the ANTI-GUNNERS ANTI-HUNTERS LOBBY TO GET BP OUTLAWED ENTIRELY. Its one more way to surpress the ownership and use of fireams. For this reason alone we should boycott buying the subs.

 

[Little Wattsy]

RS is very reliable, cleaner than BP in my rifles and much easier to get locally. Its perfect in my sidelocks too. I like to use a Spitfire nipple that has a hollow base in it, Most times i just modify my original nipple and make it look like the spitfire. RS will serve you well :thumbsup:

As for pyro being bad for your health, more corrosive than any other powder, Bull manure! We all know what to do at the end of the day with our rifles.

Excuse me, not bull manure! Pyrodex emits percholates when fired. That means if you breathe the smoke after it is fired, you are breathing highly toxic percholrates. Cleaning is not an issue as far as percholates is concerned.

If your flinter powder is getting soaking wet, you probably need to use a cow's knee. One can not use pyrodex in a flinter, so that point is moot anyway.

Where does the information come from that storing any propellent/explosive in a plastic container eliminates the grenade effect?

I still have a couple of cans of BP dated from the 60's and it is still in original condition. I do not think Pyrodex can make that claim.

Purchased in quanities, BP is one heck of a lot cheaper than Pyrodex.

Pyrodex IS NOT cleaner than real BP. This old timer has used both and has spent more time cleaning Pyrodex crud.

I rest my case! :grin:

Prehaps we should UN-wad the panties and stick with "our opinions" VS attacking anothers... :nono:
I shoot Pyro ALOT and its NOT hard to clean!..I can EASILY shoot 10 to 15 rounds between wipes and thats in 6 differant guns. The last Pyro RS I bought was $11.50 a can, on sale at Bi-Mart....So to my door for $11.50....Local BP is $20.00 a can PLUS and in the mail the cheapest Ive seen it is $13.00-ish plus fees....
Now I am NOT downing real BP but PLEEEEEZ lets keep it real, keep it FUN, and keep-em smokin.

 

[robtattoo]

Yesterday, I fired my first ever shots with real BP. All I've been able to find locally & being unwilling to order 5# of BP or more, was either 777 or Pyrodex. Until yesterday I was 100% satisfied with Pyrodex. I had zero problems with ignition (once I'd ironed out a few issues) no problem with cleaning or fouling, good accuracy & great consistency.
HOWEVER after shooting off a few dozen rounds with proper Black, I wouldn't go back to substitutes unless I had to. My first, instant thought after my first shot with black was; "DANG! That's fast!" There was a HUGELY noticeable difference in ignition speed between the two. What I thought had been 'instant' ignition with the Pyrodex couldn't even compare to the speed of BP lighting off!
So, to conclude, yes Pyrodex is fine in a caplock. A little more work to clean out & corrosive (so your cleaning needs to be thorough) but it lights up fine & shoots well. Black Powder is better. Faster, easier to clean but fouls a little quicker (I was wiping every 10th shot rather than every 15. That's all. No big deal)
If you can get BP, do it. If not, don't worry too much! :v

 

[jethro224]

Shoot real Blackpowder.
Anything else is just a substitute. :wink: