BP vs Black MZ

[azmntman]

Companies like Hodgdon and Alliant should stop trying to reinvent the wheel and focus their efforts on making real BP more easily accessible to shooters.

I agree, however "in the mean time" those who do not live nearby a vendor that has BP on hand and cannot afford haz mat and a 1lb at a time purchase are S.O.L.

These companies are reinventing the wheel so more can continue to drive, a good thing for many. I prefer black but until I landed here and learned I can order it to my door (who'd a thunk it, an EXPLOSIVE delivered to your door?) i was reeeal stingy with my black and used it only as a buffer in the flintlock and as prime. At least one member has stated he will NOT use real black powder and loves the subs?? Anyway, yer right. I too wish they would make BP more readily available. I also wish they would use all the oil they say we have to make my gasoline .75 a gallon.

 

[Carbon 6]

Anyway, yer right

Yep....

Ya know, as long as people keep buying subs, they'll keep making them and nothing will change except real BP will become harder to find and all the prices will continue to rise.

 

[Zonie]

Companies like Hodgdon and Alliant should stop trying to reinvent the wheel and focus their efforts on making real BP more easily accessible to shooters.

The companies that make real black powder have nothing to do with how easily you can get real black powder. I'm sure there is nothing they would like more than to increase their sales 20%-40%.

The problem is, very few companies want to go thru the hassle and expense of setting up a company that sells real black powder to the public.

Any one of you could do it if you had the money to set up a locally licensed business, build the Federally required storage bunkers, pass the Federal tests to obtain a Federal Explosives license and get the insurance you would need to protect your building(s).

Then, you would most likely need to get any additional approvals your local city or town might have that governs having a business that sells explosives. Some cities don't want a powder keg sitting in their city limits.

Once you have all of those ducks in order you would just have to contact GOEX, or the place that imports the other real black powders from overseas, set up an account and start buying.

Before you go to all of that work, remember, you will be selling your powder to an extremely small percentage of the American shooting population and many of them won't know your company exists. You will also be competing with the local gun and sporting good stores that sell the synthetic black powders that are available along with the companies that sell their black powder on line.

With that in mind, I think it's a wonder that there are as many places that sell real black powder as there are now.

 

[Carbon 6]

Now that you've came up with every possible excuse why it cant be done, step back, take a deep breath and visualize the multitude of ways that it can be done. Each individual problem has a simple solution.

Your own mind is the only thing holding you back.

 

[azmntman]

Awesome! So when do you expect to open your shop, any idea of the cost say for a pound of swiss fffg? Hope you'll prosper and be able to open a shop near me!!

 

[Carbon 6]

Awesome! So when do you expect to open your shop, any idea of the cost say for a pound of swiss fffg? Hope you'll prosper and be able to open a shop near me!!

Gladly, But, first it would be extremely helpful if Hodgdon wasn't competing against itself. Maybe Alliant will come to the realization that the way to compete with Hodgdon isn't by making a different patented and trademarked product but by making real black powder and by supporting traditional shooters and reenactors. Everybody want's a slice of the pie, but nobody seems to want to make pies.

 

[azmntman]

Gladly, But, first it would be extremely helpful if Hodgdon wasn't competing against itself. Maybe Alliant will come to the realization that the way to compete with Hodgdon isn't by making a different patented and trademarked product but by making real black powder and by supporting traditional shooters and reenactors. Everybody want's a slice of the pie, but nobody seems to want to make pies.

Well......I thought your issue was wanting MORE REAL BP PRODUCED? Don't worry bout them making the subs....it can only help you. Get yer applications and deposits out and lets see some saturation of the market to produce the holy black. You'll likely FORCE them to follow suit as when you over come the bureaucracy and start pumping out real black, as you said, folks will stop buying fake powder an you should prosper. Let us know when yer close and we will consider stock in yer CO. Heck "Carbon6 fffg sounds plum marketable to me and the NAME is the hardest part when starting a new CO. If even 10% of the forum backed you, you could shoot for 50 state marketing by this time next year?

 

[Carbon 6]

Well......I thought your issue was wanting MORE REAL BP PRODUCED?

No I saaid,
"focus their efforts on making real BP more easily accessible to shooters."

 

[azmntman]

Well I wont go into the political field here, buy ya, somebody could start that, in today's world the word "explosive" on that lil pound container is sure gonna be a hindrance though In fact we might just wanna accept the status que VS losing even more?

Like Zonie said it's a wonder we can get it delivered overnight to out doorstep today

 

[Okie Hog]

Companies like Hodgdon and Alliant should stop trying to reinvent the wheel and focus their efforts on making real BP more easily accessible to shooters.

Tell me how Hodgdon Powder would go about making black powder "more accessible" to shooters. Very few merchants want to sell black powder. Too much hassle for a very small return on their investment.

 

[Carbon 6]

It's just a label man. There's more energy in a block of firewood.

Gasoline and electricity are far more dangerous.

Like I said,

Now that you've came up with every possible excuse why it cant be done, step back, take a deep breath and visualize the multitude of ways that it can be done. Each individual problem has a simple solution.

Your own mind is the only thing holding you back.

 

[Carbon 6]

Very few merchants want to sell black powder. Too much hassle for a very small return on their investment.

If you read what you wrote you will realize that you answered your own question. Or at least the answer is within the question.

Go talk to merchants, get their answers, if they give you a response like "it's too much hassle" then you know they are part of the problem. You also know that it would be easy to out compete them.

If you can't overcome the mental barrier, how can you expect to overcome the physical one.

 

[Kansas Jake]

To bad Hodgdon doesn't have a factory outlet store. I think their BP facility is not too far from me. I stopped there about 10 years ago, but they didn't offer tours and were not too welcoming to have a stranger show up at the office. The buildings were small and scattered far apart with what I assume were vacuum tubes going from one building to another. I assume it was to keep down the possibility of an accident.

 

[Okie Hog]

Go talk to merchants, get their answers, if they give you a response like "it's too much hassle" then you know they are part of the problem. You also know that it would be easy to out compete them.

One of my masters degrees is in marketing. i have talked with folks who formerly sold black powder; also talked with two folks who currently sell black powder; one is quitting in January. There is little money in selling stuff that relatively few people use.

 

[Carbon 6]

One of my masters degrees is in marketing. .

Really! tell us more. What projects have you worked on ? You just might be the guy we need. Any portfolio excerpts or samples of your work? Which project was your biggest failure?

 

[Zonie]

I don't see where any of his successes or failures has anything to do with the topic or, the availability of black powder.

It doesn't take a masters degree to know there is a very small market for black powder and what market does exist doesn't want to pay a lot of money for the product. As long as this is the case, there will be few places that will bother to try to sell it.

If you want to make real black powder more available to the general public get your congressmen to remove the EXPLOSIVE label and remove the burdens of selling it.

If that was done, perhaps more stores would start selling it.

 

[Carbon 6]

Guess I'm talking to the wrong people. I bid you adieu.

 

[drobs]

Y'all inspired me, I ordered 10lbs of Alliant Black MZ last week. Free shipping but Hazmat was $20 from Sportsman's Warehouse.

https://www.sportsmanswarehouse.com.../Powder-and-Primers/prod99999030268/cat100011

 

[theoldredneck]

After I started reading here a few years back started looking for real black powder. The black powder subs were available in a local walmart. The nearest place I could find real blackpowder for sale was over 60 miles away. They were out. Finally found some cowboy action shooters that did group buy once or twice a year. Got on their list an finally was able to buy on their next order. A friend owns a small commercial reloading company. He also sells reloading supplies and components. When I ask why he didn't sell blackpowder he gave me the list of requirements. Both from insurance company and government regulations. It was easy to see why he didn't. It is cheaper and easier to be part of a group buy or order your self. When I need powder again will order it through a group buy or order several pounds myself. It is easy to see why retailers here do not want to deal with regulations and cost to comply. My flintlocks get real blackpowder, the percussion and cartridges often get substitute black. Using the substitute black makes the real black last longer. To me the substitute is nastier and harder to clean, if real black was as easy to get would never use the substitute. Im thankful to the older members here that were so helpful. When I was trying to find real blackpowder for my flintlocks it was evident the substitute stuff did not and would not work. When the real blackpowder was used they worked perfectly. The percussion guns shot better. Both were so much easier to clean. All the efforts were instantly worth it. Everything about real blackpowder being better was true. I am totally sold on real blackpowder. Thank You gentlemen for all your help over the years.

 

[Jimmyg]

I'm still pretty new here, so have not researched the archives on this,but, why don't you guys make your own? My friend does. I'm going to learn from him.. His powder is beautiful, and works perfect. He tells me it is easy to make.