brand new 1851 navy snubnose wedge causing cylinder jam

[caps4sale]

just got a new pietta today, my first black powder and i had one heck of a time trying to get the wedge out so it is a little dinged up on one end, that said ever since i re assmbled the revolver to fire some caps to clear the cylinder n barrel, after i put the wedge in the cylinder locks up. it moves about a half click then jams, i can reset it back to the previous nipple but it always jams again. the wedge is dinged on the end yes but it is not deformed and when i take the wedge out it cycles the cylinder fine even when i put pressure on the barrel to make sure that it is not the barrel moving that allows the cycle. anyone know how i fix this? brand new never fired except for 4 caps i was able to shoot before this happened

 

[bigstick6017555]

How hard are you reinstalling the wedge? you should not need any more than a light tap from small screw driver, wooden or plastic handle, or even just a good finger pressure

 

[caps4sale]

ya ive been looking around the forum since i posted n im realizing i did it very wrong right from the get go. im thinking i may need to get a new wedge

 

[russellshaffer]

My wedge was also a problem. Check out this Pietta tuning pdf. Scroll down to page 15 to see how to fix it. It worked for me. I had to beat hard to get the wedge out the first time. I take it in and out with just screwdriver taps now.

 

[45D]

or even just a good finger pressure

Absolutely not! Finger pressure isn't enough to "set" the barrel assy to establish all the clearancing tolerances. A good "smack" (not a "tap") to set the wedge is needed.

just got a new pietta today, my first black powder and i had one heck of a time trying to get the wedge out so it is a little dinged up on one end, that said ever since i re assmbled the revolver to fire some caps to clear the cylinder n barrel, after i put the wedge in the cylinder locks up. it moves about a half click then jams, i can reset it back to the previous nipple but it always jams again. the wedge is dinged on the end yes but it is not deformed and when i take the wedge out it cycles the cylinder fine even when i put pressure on the barrel to make sure that it is not the barrel moving that allows the cycle. anyone know how i fix this? brand new never fired except for 4 caps i was able to shoot before this happened

Sounds like the arbor is a little short on that one. Pietta typically has a decent arbor length. Go ahead and look at the pdf suggested by russellshaffer ( good info but the "swing the barrel down" to test for short arbor isn't a reliable test.

Mike

 

[caps4sale]

My wedge was also a problem. Check out this Pietta tuning pdf. Scroll down to page 15 to see how to fix it. It worked for me. I had to beat hard to get the wedge out the first time. I take it in and out with just screwdriver taps now.

took a quick look at that n it seems very helpful! thank you very much i think this will lead to a solution n even if it doesnt, its great info for a new black powder shooter so i really appreciate it

Absolutely not! Finger pressure isn't enough to "set" the barrel assy to establish all the clearancing tolerances. A good "smack" (not a "tap") to set the wedge is needed.



Sounds like the arbor is a little short on that one. Pietta typically has a decent arbor length. Go ahead and look at the pdf suggested by russellshaffer ( good info but the "swing the barrel down" to test for short arbor isn't a reliable test.

Mike

i really did mine VERY wrong lol, i was embarrassed to admit that i didnt even consider the set screw or remove it or anything and just proceeded to pound the wedge completely out of its slot, only seeing after just how incorrect that was as it shouldnt even need to leave the slot in the first place. i did some sandpaper work and i got it to be able to function as should but it is still VERY tight if i put it all the way in the slot so as bad as i want to go try it out, i think i may just order the new wedge and wait to make sure everything is proper as it was intended

 

[M. De Land]

took a quick look at that n it seems very helpful! thank you very much i think this will lead to a solution n even if it doesnt, its great info for a new black powder shooter so i really appreciate it



i really did mine VERY wrong lol, i was embarrassed to admit that i didnt even consider the set screw or remove it or anything and just proceeded to pound the wedge completely out of its slot, only seeing after just how incorrect that was as it shouldnt even need to leave the slot in the first place. i did some sandpaper work and i got it to be able to function as should but it is still VERY tight if i put it all the way in the slot so as bad as i want to go try it out, i think i may just order the new wedge and wait to make sure everything is proper as it was intended

I use a rawhide hammer or block of hardwood to remove all wedges, factory or newly made striking downward at an angle on the wedge end and keep spring. This depresses the keep spring with each strike simultaneously jarring the wedge loose and backing it out. It saves scratches and buggering the inside of the keep spring lip, wedge slot and end of the wedge.
Keep springs are unnecessary but rather only a good fit and blind ended keep screw head trough.
I never put them on the new wedges I make of tool steel.
Most factory wedges are a might soft and do not fit the the arbor height as well as they should in my opinion and is one of the reasons for backing out. If the wedge and slot have a good mate up in slot height to wedge thickness and the key width and taper are correct then they don't have to be driven in very hard to stay put. A couple of lick with a rawhide hammer, stick of hardwood or the butt of a screw driver handle will suffice. One of the reasons for wedge deformation is excessive seating, beating on them until they smoke! I've seen wedge heads that look like they have been driven in with a sledge hammer or large rock!

 

[smoothshooter]

just got a new pietta today, my first black powder and i had one heck of a time trying to get the wedge out so it is a little dinged up on one end, that said ever since i re assmbled the revolver to fire some caps to clear the cylinder n barrel, after i put the wedge in the cylinder locks up. it moves about a half click then jams, i can reset it back to the previous nipple but it always jams again. the wedge is dinged on the end yes but it is not deformed and when i take the wedge out it cycles the cylinder fine even when i put pressure on the barrel to make sure that it is not the barrel moving that allows the cycle. anyone know how i fix this? brand new never fired except for 4 caps i was able to shoot before this happened

I don’t think the wedge is the problem.

 

[wiscoaster]

I don’t think the wedge is the problem.

Ditto.

 

[Larry Akers]

If the arbor is the correct length it is impossible to lock the cylinder no matter how tight the wedge is driven. I'd bet the family farm your arbor is too short.

 

[RMFnLA]

+1 on rawhide hammer for R&R.

Leaves no marks, ever.

 

[caps4sale]

I don’t think the wedge is the problem.

i assumed the wedge because the only time it jammed was when i put the wedge back in. idk all the different parts on the BP revolvers yet so i may be misnaming, but it appears to be some part of the wedge or where the wedge slots into is causing the issue as i kept trying to eliminate potential problems to see where the issue was n thats where i was able to track it. ive since seemingly fixed the issue it seems so i really appreciate everyones help

I use a rawhide hammer or block of hardwood to remove all wedges, factory or newly made striking downward at an angle on the wedge end and keep spring. This depresses the keep spring with each strike simultaneously jarring the wedge loose and backing it out. It saves scratches and buggering the inside of the keep spring lip, wedge slot and end of the wedge.
Keep springs are unnecessary but rather only a good fit and blind ended keep screw head trough.
I never put them on the new wedges I make of tool steel.
Most factory wedges are a might soft and do not fit the the arbor height as well as they should in my opinion and is one of the reasons for backing out. If the wedge and slot have a good mate up in slot height to wedge thickness and the key width and taper are correct then they don't have to be driven in very hard to stay put. A couple of lick with a rawhide hammer, stick of hardwood or the butt of a screw driver handle will suffice. One of the reasons for wedge deformation is excessive seating, beating on them until they smoke! I've seen wedge heads that look like they have been driven in with a sledge hammer or large rock!

i used a rubber mallet but im trying to get all the best tools for the job, so this info helps alot thanx!

 

[M. De Land]

i assumed the wedge because the only time it jammed was when i put the wedge back in. idk all the different parts on the BP revolvers yet so i may be misnaming, but it appears to be some part of the wedge or where the wedge slots into is causing the issue as i kept trying to eliminate potential problems to see where the issue was n thats where i was able to track it. ive since seemingly fixed the issue it seems so i really appreciate everyones help

i used a rubber mallet but im trying to get all the best tools for the job, so this info helps alot thanx!

The rubber hammers give to much. The rawhide is harder material and shocks better. Some of the polycarbonate dead blow hammers would be good as well.

 

[Tyler L]

I like Lixie's dead-blow hammers with the "medium/green" head

 

[smoothshooter]

I use a rawhide hammer or block of hardwood to remove all wedges, factory or newly made striking downward at an angle on the wedge end and keep spring. This depresses the keep spring with each strike simultaneously jarring the wedge loose and backing it out. It saves scratches and buggering the inside of the keep spring lip, wedge slot and end of the wedge.
Keep springs are unnecessary but rather only a good fit and blind ended keep screw head trough.
I never put them on the new wedges I make of tool steel.
Most factory wedges are a might soft and do not fit the the arbor height as well as they should in my opinion and is one of the reasons for backing out. If the wedge and slot have a good mate up in slot height to wedge thickness and the key width and taper are correct then they don't have to be driven in very hard to stay put. A couple of lick with a rawhide hammer, stick of hardwood or the butt of a screw driver handle will suffice. One of the reasons for wedge deformation is excessive seating, beating on them until they smoke! I've seen wedge heads that look like they have been driven in with a sledge hammer or large rock!

My Uberti 1860 Army and Uberti 1851 Navy revolvers came from the factory so well fitted that i can remove and reinstall the wedges using firm thumb pressure only, and they never shoot loose. No mallet or wood block needed

 

[45D]

My Uberti 1860 Army and Uberti 1851 Navy revolvers came from the factory so well fitted that i can remove and reinstall the wedges using firm thumb pressure only, and they never shoot loose. No mallet or wood block needed

Yes, because if you did, the cylinder would be locked up because the arbor is too short. If the arbor HAS been corrected, you still can't remove all the clearances to get to the "established" tolerances with just thumb pressure.

Mike

 

[M. De Land]

If the arbor is the correct length it is impossible to lock the cylinder no matter how tight the wedge is driven. I'd bet the family farm your arbor is too short.

Actually there is more involved here than just arbor end fit in the well and I never hear it mentioned and that is the lower lug fit . This is especially true when setting a barrel back to close large barrel cylinder gaps.
The idea is to keep the gap even around the clock not just closing the gap at the top which is what proper arbor end fit supports. If one draws the gap up and does not adjust the lower lug then the gap can wind up uneven and will tend to make the revolver shoot high or low. This is one of the reasons open top guns tend to shoot high !
There are literally tens of thousands of short arbor guns that are functioning very well and have been for decades but they are always benefited (made better) by proper arbor end fit. Adjusting the lower lug ( a cantilever) so that the gap is even around the clock is another addition to good tuning effecting point of impact , accuracy and longevity.
For a look see in your revolver hold the gun up side ways to a good light source and view the gap. You will be able to see if level or not and then check it with the tip of a feeler gauge at 3-6-9 and 12 o'clock to actually measure where your at. Not much can be done about 3 and 9 o'clock without a dovetail front sight install but 6 and 12 are totally adjustable by arbor end , lower lug and wedge fit.

 

[M. De Land]

Actually there is more involved here than just arbor end fit in the well and I never hear it mentioned and that is the lower lug fit . This is especially true when setting a barrel back to close large barrel cylinder gaps.
The idea is to keep the gap even around the clock not just closing the gap at the top which is what proper arbor end fit supports. If one draws the gap up and does not adjust the lower lug then the gap can wind up uneven and will tend to make the revolver shoot high or low. This is one of the reasons open top guns tend to shoot high !
There are literally tens of thousands of short arbor guns that are functioning very well and have been for decades but they are always benefited (made better) by proper arbor end fit. Adjusting the lower lug ( a cantilever) so that the gap is even around the clock is another addition to good tuning effecting point of impact , accuracy and longevity.
For a look see in your revolver hold the gun up side ways to a good light source and view the gap. You will be able to see if level or not and then check it with the tip of a feeler gauge at 3-6-9 and 12 o'clock to actually measure where your at. Not much can be done about 3 and 9 o'clock without a dovetail front sight install but 6 and 12 are totally adjustable by arbor end , lower lug and wedge fit.

Trimming and squaring a lower lug in the lathe. Make really light cuts ! The barrel is held on center with brass center plugs front and back in head and tail stocks . This is where the old machine adage of take half as much as you think needed and try-fit until dialed in, is necessary.
A model 60 is being trimmed in the picture. This gun had a barrel/cylinder gap of .027 as I recall.
The pins needed trimming as well.

 

[M. De Land]

Trimming and squaring a lower lug in the lathe. Make really light cuts ! The barrel is held on center with brass center plugs front and back in head and tail stocks . This is where the old machine adage of take half as much as you think needed and try-fit until dialed in, is necessary.
A model 60 is being trimmed in the picture. This gun had a barrel/cylinder gap of .027 as I recall.
The pins needed trimming as well.

I should have also mentioned the arbor threads were not stretched and it was tight in the steel frame gun.
To correct I had to make a new, broader wedge and extend both the arbor and barrel slots (opposite direction) to close the gap. Finding the cylinder front uneven I did have to turn it level in the lathe to begin with. Next in order was to trim the lower lug and end fit the arbor to close and establish the barrel cylinder gap with as even an opening width as the previous factory machining would allow. I like to wind up with .004-.006 and set them back when they exceed .010.