Guest
I don,t polish and in days of old they did not ,just let it tarnish. No shine to spookgame or Indians. Watch your topknot let it tarnish!!! No shiney brass pimp guns
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I do not think there is much to support the idea that anyone cared about their guns being to shiney in the past, many originals were polished iron or brass and the fancier the gun the higher the polish in some cases. whether this condition was maintained is not really supported either way as far as being a general rule.
Guest
Yes guns in the bright were polished and burnished bright it was a reg.,more so in the military. ALOT OF LONGRIFLES WERE BRITE TO AND BROWNING CAME WITH AGE. YES THERE WAS NO SET RULES,BUT AS WITH MOST PLAIN TOOLS ,I DON,T THINK THEY POLISHED THEM BRIGHT ALL THE TIME. BUT AS YOU POINTED OUT THERE WAS NO RULE OF THUMB. JUST AS PEOPLE TELL ME THERE WERE NO REAR SITES ON FOWLERS,THATS A MODERN RULE FOR TRADEGUN SHOOTS TODAY. THERE WAS NO RULE BACK IN THE OLD DAYS. WHEN ONE SAYS THERE WERE ALLWAYS THIS WAY OR THAT WAY IT DOES NOT MEAN IT WAS WROTE IN STONE. SOMEBODY TRYED IT OR DID IT THATS FOR SURE. GOD BLESS GOOD LUCK!!
Guest
Yes its not the shiney guns its the movement in the sunlight that shines,Those turkey don,t like it,with fowlers in the white or deep charcoal blue I move ever so little and try to keep in the shade or a temp blind up to my knees. I let my guns pale to that good well cared for dullness of a non-flatlanders or non- greenhorns gun. I use them but don't abuse them. And like the look of a well cared for gun with perfect bore and fine oiled clean working lock. Good luck on your hunting next season.
Guest
Now here's a little story about "HUNTING" with a shiney weapon in your hands, and BEING hunted with a shiney anything to draw attention to yer precious arse.
Now we've all seen deer feeding right next to a running oil well pump, standing in crude oil and the smell and noise bothers them not in the LEAST.
MOVEMENT and the sound of the HUMAN VOICE will spook most deer most of the time.
One time I took my nephew out deer hunting. He had a crossbow (yeeech!) and I had my split limb wheelie, pully wonder (equally yeeeeech!). I had just two days before taken the 2nd largest buck bow kill in my County.
Nephew had yet to connect with a deer.
I put him in his stand, made a few, quiet short evening drives to stir up the critters slightly then got into my stand.
I watched SEVEN deer on the path to ever fidgit, can't set still fer a minute, nephews tree stand, all comming behind him. Each time deer would stop short, snort, and trot off right at ME!. I was wearing a white t-shirt, tennis shoes, no hat, smoking cigarettes to boot.(I had MY deer)
The deer never noticed me. I finally took a last light shot and achored a fat freezer doe.
Lesson? My clothing and cigarettes had nothin' to do with nuthin'. Nephews light camo jacket had been hung on his DOG KENNEL fence over night! Cheeesh! The deer smelled DOG, an enemy and ran off! They also noticed him fidgiting and moveing aroud since the dog smell had them on alert immediately. I wore ordinary clothes, but did not move a muscle and the deer never noticed me!
That's the hunting story with US being hunters.
Now ME being hunted. Years ago I drove into a slightly hostile situation, got out of the crusier, and instantly came under semi-automactic rifle fire. (OPPPPPPPPPPPPPS)
Pucker factor of 10!
I soon figured out my hat brim and badge, shirt badge, chrome belt buckle, etc. was reflecting every kind of light in the darkened area, making me a great target.
They all came off and went into the ditch.
Long story short, I kept only my revolver and ammo, everything shiney went into the ditch.
End of that story. I was verticle and they were much the worse for wear! :blah: :haha: ::
:blah:
(When I became in charge of SWAT we wore BLACK CLOTHES with Grey cloth insignia! AND got rid of the revlovers in favor if ,,,,no not semi-auto PISTOLS, SUB-GUNS, MP-5, silenced!)
Now we've all seen deer feeding right next to a running oil well pump, standing in crude oil and the smell and noise bothers them not in the LEAST.
MOVEMENT and the sound of the HUMAN VOICE will spook most deer most of the time.
One time I took my nephew out deer hunting. He had a crossbow (yeeech!) and I had my split limb wheelie, pully wonder (equally yeeeeech!). I had just two days before taken the 2nd largest buck bow kill in my County.
Nephew had yet to connect with a deer.
I put him in his stand, made a few, quiet short evening drives to stir up the critters slightly then got into my stand.
I watched SEVEN deer on the path to ever fidgit, can't set still fer a minute, nephews tree stand, all comming behind him. Each time deer would stop short, snort, and trot off right at ME!. I was wearing a white t-shirt, tennis shoes, no hat, smoking cigarettes to boot.(I had MY deer)
The deer never noticed me. I finally took a last light shot and achored a fat freezer doe.
Lesson? My clothing and cigarettes had nothin' to do with nuthin'. Nephews light camo jacket had been hung on his DOG KENNEL fence over night! Cheeesh! The deer smelled DOG, an enemy and ran off! They also noticed him fidgiting and moveing aroud since the dog smell had them on alert immediately. I wore ordinary clothes, but did not move a muscle and the deer never noticed me!
That's the hunting story with US being hunters.
Now ME being hunted. Years ago I drove into a slightly hostile situation, got out of the crusier, and instantly came under semi-automactic rifle fire. (OPPPPPPPPPPPPPS)
Pucker factor of 10!
I soon figured out my hat brim and badge, shirt badge, chrome belt buckle, etc. was reflecting every kind of light in the darkened area, making me a great target.
They all came off and went into the ditch.
Long story short, I kept only my revolver and ammo, everything shiney went into the ditch.
End of that story. I was verticle and they were much the worse for wear! :blah: :haha: ::
:blah:(When I became in charge of SWAT we wore BLACK CLOTHES with Grey cloth insignia! AND got rid of the revlovers in favor if ,,,,no not semi-auto PISTOLS, SUB-GUNS, MP-5, silenced!)
AFTER JUST A . . . I mean, after just a short while the brass starts to cloud over - especially under the influence of powder residue and handling. Game was doubltless much less skittery where man was uncommon, but I would bet the brass didn't get much attention to polish by the common man in the field. Probably, as long as it was clean it was OK. Mine becomes a pale yellow after routine rubbing with grease or linseed oil and normal handling. I'm happy with that.
Wonder what the equivalnt of Brasso, Flitz or good 'ol toothpaste would have been in 1780? Baking soda & water?
The gun I've having made had iron furniture. There must have been a few ex-Navy colonials who were sick of polishing brass and kept that option alive. ::
Wonder what the equivalnt of Brasso, Flitz or good 'ol toothpaste would have been in 1780? Baking soda & water?
The gun I've having made had iron furniture. There must have been a few ex-Navy colonials who were sick of polishing brass and kept that option alive. ::
Guest
Pumice and ashs from fire and yes I like the aged look of mellow yellow. It should be noted that brass was preferred back then ,because the iron rusted without care.
Guest
Bact then is a lot of time to cover, and was preferred is sort of a neutral statement. There is no noun to use as a subject in this sentence. Who were the people that preferred brass and where did they live. Not In the south as much as the middle colonies and not from St Louis west. Southern guns, where the humidity was high and iron would rust fast, evolved to iron furnature. The plains rifle makers of the west (not the trade rifles made in PA), evolved with mostly iron hardware. And if they avoided iron due to the rust factor why were all of the barrels not cast from brass? There is at least one famous Brass Barreled rifle in countroversy right now as being one of the oldest rifles made in the colonies. Brass is pretty, but not necessarily superior. It does trun green with neglect just as iron rusts.
Its main attribute is that it is easy to cast into malable shapes and easy to finish. Good forgework requires way more time and skill. Finishing furnature was the work of the apprintices and they could work the brass faster and with less training than iron, so the makers preferred to use their cheaper labor for these tasks unless iron was specified. All the fancy finish work we brag about was done mostly by little kids in the old days.
We have people on the forum that will say a maker wouldn't do this or would only do that, and used only this wood or that steel and would not change his process for a customer's demands. Saying the frontiersman, the gunsmiths customers, had a preference on the furnature these smiths produced contridicts that. Why would a smith change the hardware but not vary the drop, width or butt curve of the stock to meet a customer requirement.
I like to have the choice myself. Of my two favorite rifles, one is brass trimmed and one iron. I do not remember the cost of the hardware being much different, i just wanted iron on the poor boy and brass on the early PA. That was just the way they "looked right".
Its main attribute is that it is easy to cast into malable shapes and easy to finish. Good forgework requires way more time and skill. Finishing furnature was the work of the apprintices and they could work the brass faster and with less training than iron, so the makers preferred to use their cheaper labor for these tasks unless iron was specified. All the fancy finish work we brag about was done mostly by little kids in the old days.
We have people on the forum that will say a maker wouldn't do this or would only do that, and used only this wood or that steel and would not change his process for a customer's demands. Saying the frontiersman, the gunsmiths customers, had a preference on the furnature these smiths produced contridicts that. Why would a smith change the hardware but not vary the drop, width or butt curve of the stock to meet a customer requirement.
I like to have the choice myself. Of my two favorite rifles, one is brass trimmed and one iron. I do not remember the cost of the hardware being much different, i just wanted iron on the poor boy and brass on the early PA. That was just the way they "looked right".
Guest
Ghost is correct from what I have read as well.
Most of what we now know is that a poor boy rifle that we once thought to have only iron hardware is now being thought to be of brass.
Why?
Well brass can be cast while back in the 17 and 1800 steal and iron could not. it had to be hand forged and hammered and thus was more labor intensive for trained people and would cost more. They just didn
Most of what we now know is that a poor boy rifle that we once thought to have only iron hardware is now being thought to be of brass.
Why?
Well brass can be cast while back in the 17 and 1800 steal and iron could not. it had to be hand forged and hammered and thus was more labor intensive for trained people and would cost more. They just didn
All good points.
In trying to hunt up details on iron mounted Pennsylvania longrifles I kept encountering words like "seldom", "infrequent", "rarely", "occasionally", "could", "perhaps", etc. It seems there is no rhyme nor reason. An iron mounted rifle just seemed to pop out now and then. Could be when the brass supply got low, or the gunsmith got a deal on iron or had some scrap to use up, or it wasn't worth firing up a crucible and forming a mold to cast a brass part, or the client requested it, or it was just soemthing different to have on the rack that they knew would appeal to certain folks, or the gunsmith just had a whim to forge something he up and did it. The fellow making mine was very agreeable to the project because forging iron furniture occasionally is something different that he enjoys doing. I'm not sure if the original smiths made-to-order or kept finished stock on hand to sell to 'walk-ins'. I imagine they kept active whether there was an order 'in house' or not, and even brass hardware needs a pattern for the mould to be formed with. When Kuntz or Dickert spotted an apprentice visiting M/L message boards on the shop PC it would be reasonable to think they might set him to forging triggerguards or buttplates to keep him busy and as a lead in to the more difficult barrels down the road. Just a thought.
As to the rust aspect. Why use 90% iron (barrel, breechplug, tang, lockplate, trigger, sights, pan, screws, ramrod tips, internal lock components) and then worry about the buttplate, sideplate, triggerguard and thimbles rusting? The frizzen is the only component that needs be iron or steel - though a brass sear or hammer would be short lived.
In trying to hunt up details on iron mounted Pennsylvania longrifles I kept encountering words like "seldom", "infrequent", "rarely", "occasionally", "could", "perhaps", etc. It seems there is no rhyme nor reason. An iron mounted rifle just seemed to pop out now and then. Could be when the brass supply got low, or the gunsmith got a deal on iron or had some scrap to use up, or it wasn't worth firing up a crucible and forming a mold to cast a brass part, or the client requested it, or it was just soemthing different to have on the rack that they knew would appeal to certain folks, or the gunsmith just had a whim to forge something he up and did it. The fellow making mine was very agreeable to the project because forging iron furniture occasionally is something different that he enjoys doing. I'm not sure if the original smiths made-to-order or kept finished stock on hand to sell to 'walk-ins'. I imagine they kept active whether there was an order 'in house' or not, and even brass hardware needs a pattern for the mould to be formed with. When Kuntz or Dickert spotted an apprentice visiting M/L message boards on the shop PC it would be reasonable to think they might set him to forging triggerguards or buttplates to keep him busy and as a lead in to the more difficult barrels down the road. Just a thought.
As to the rust aspect. Why use 90% iron (barrel, breechplug, tang, lockplate, trigger, sights, pan, screws, ramrod tips, internal lock components) and then worry about the buttplate, sideplate, triggerguard and thimbles rusting? The frizzen is the only component that needs be iron or steel - though a brass sear or hammer would be short lived.
Huntinfool
45 Cal.
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2004
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- 862
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- 0
This is a subject that I was very concerned with when I first got my longrifle. I keep all my modern guns camoed as best as can be.
My mentor and gunsmith said he wasn't worried about it as he never had any problem with deer seeing the brass on his rifles and he keeps his bright and shiny.
Well, as time went on and I hunted with him I realized he had way less hunting experience than me. He was with me when he killed his first antlered deer it was a little 5 pointer that fell into my planned one man drive for him.
He could count on one hand the number of deer he taken in his whole life. He was in his early 60s now he's one heck of a historian and gunsmith. But when it comes to huntin' he bows to me. He says that I have the spirit of Boone and Kenton when it comes to huntin'.
He also said with enough neglect the brass will pit. He's such an artist and so respects his firelocks. I've settled on a compromise.
This is the way I do it. I clean and shine my brass just as bright as I can at the end of huntin' season. I don't touch it until one year later again at the end of huntin' season. That keeps it from pitting and lets it get dull enough by huntin' season that I feel reasonably inconspicuous.
Now the shiny silver fore end tip on my 12 Ga. smoothbore is a different story when turkey huntin' I always paint or tape it as those rascals can see the twinkle in your eye.
And as I told my mentor there's a world of difference in potting a 5 point 2 year old buck and taking a 5 or 6 year old mature buck. I don't want to chance missing an opportunity of a lifetime by blinding him with the reflection off the brass on my rifle.
YMH&OS
Chuck Goodall
"The Original Huntin' Fool"
&
Kanawha Ranger Scribe
My mentor and gunsmith said he wasn't worried about it as he never had any problem with deer seeing the brass on his rifles and he keeps his bright and shiny.
Well, as time went on and I hunted with him I realized he had way less hunting experience than me. He was with me when he killed his first antlered deer it was a little 5 pointer that fell into my planned one man drive for him.
He could count on one hand the number of deer he taken in his whole life. He was in his early 60s now he's one heck of a historian and gunsmith. But when it comes to huntin' he bows to me. He says that I have the spirit of Boone and Kenton when it comes to huntin'.
He also said with enough neglect the brass will pit. He's such an artist and so respects his firelocks. I've settled on a compromise.
This is the way I do it. I clean and shine my brass just as bright as I can at the end of huntin' season. I don't touch it until one year later again at the end of huntin' season. That keeps it from pitting and lets it get dull enough by huntin' season that I feel reasonably inconspicuous.
Now the shiny silver fore end tip on my 12 Ga. smoothbore is a different story when turkey huntin' I always paint or tape it as those rascals can see the twinkle in your eye.
And as I told my mentor there's a world of difference in potting a 5 point 2 year old buck and taking a 5 or 6 year old mature buck. I don't want to chance missing an opportunity of a lifetime by blinding him with the reflection off the brass on my rifle.
YMH&OS
Chuck Goodall
"The Original Huntin' Fool"
&
Kanawha Ranger Scribe
Here is my take on this...
There is so much trash and junked cars scattered throughout the woods and fields, back yards, ect. that the deer are use to seeing reflected light...
Unless it is the deep woods or a state hunting ground, there are junk piles and dumps, and yes, deer travel through them... (look for tracks)
It's the movement that gives the hunters away, the deer just thinks the brass reflection is just something new added to their polluted home...
Just my opinion, nothing more...
There is so much trash and junked cars scattered throughout the woods and fields, back yards, ect. that the deer are use to seeing reflected light...
Unless it is the deep woods or a state hunting ground, there are junk piles and dumps, and yes, deer travel through them... (look for tracks)
It's the movement that gives the hunters away, the deer just thinks the brass reflection is just something new added to their polluted home...
Just my opinion, nothing more...
Turkey can spot the shine off your fillings.
Deer - different story. Depends a lot on how you hunt, too. You could use one of Zonie's wood-mounted silver rifles from a treestand. :haha: Me, I find a nice stump or blow-down seat for a few hours and then move when I get cold, stiff or bored. Stalking over open terrain would be when I wouldn't want anything shiny. When I bowhunt (traditional recurve still-hunting w/wood arrows) I need to have the deer VERY close and even being cautious I still make a lot of movement at the deer's eye level to draw the bow, so I wear camo and even facepaint (and NEVER make eye contact). With a firearm it's much less so. My New Englander (from a kit) is shiny blue with a bright shiny Tru-Oil finish. As long as I don't go waving it over my head I don't think it's a problem. Most spots I hunt are thick cover and there is little direct sunlight. My smoothbore fusil had a 42" 'natural' bright barrel; if I was paying attention all the deer saw was the back of the frizzen and the ring around the muzzle.
Regular season I used to hunt with a 11-87 with shiny blue finish and a shiny stainless steel bolt that stood out like a sore thumb. Shiny glasses, 10-Mile Cloth blaze orange head-to-toe, and I've still had deer walk within yards of me. The last buck turned and ran AT me after I shot from 30 yards and I could have poked him with my barrel as he ran past. MOVEMENT is a give away, SCENT is a BIG givaway, SHINY is less concern. On a sunny morning in an autumn woods there are wet, yellow leaves that are as shiny as most brass.
Deer - different story. Depends a lot on how you hunt, too. You could use one of Zonie's wood-mounted silver rifles from a treestand. :haha: Me, I find a nice stump or blow-down seat for a few hours and then move when I get cold, stiff or bored. Stalking over open terrain would be when I wouldn't want anything shiny. When I bowhunt (traditional recurve still-hunting w/wood arrows) I need to have the deer VERY close and even being cautious I still make a lot of movement at the deer's eye level to draw the bow, so I wear camo and even facepaint (and NEVER make eye contact). With a firearm it's much less so. My New Englander (from a kit) is shiny blue with a bright shiny Tru-Oil finish. As long as I don't go waving it over my head I don't think it's a problem. Most spots I hunt are thick cover and there is little direct sunlight. My smoothbore fusil had a 42" 'natural' bright barrel; if I was paying attention all the deer saw was the back of the frizzen and the ring around the muzzle.
Regular season I used to hunt with a 11-87 with shiny blue finish and a shiny stainless steel bolt that stood out like a sore thumb. Shiny glasses, 10-Mile Cloth blaze orange head-to-toe, and I've still had deer walk within yards of me. The last buck turned and ran AT me after I shot from 30 yards and I could have poked him with my barrel as he ran past. MOVEMENT is a give away, SCENT is a BIG givaway, SHINY is less concern. On a sunny morning in an autumn woods there are wet, yellow leaves that are as shiny as most brass.
Huntinfool
45 Cal.
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I agree MM it's the movement that gives you away so to speak. Go out with a friend on a sunny day. Watch him from a great distance have him carry a shiny gun invariably one has to move. You will see several incidents of mirror like reflection SHOWING MOVEMENT.
You can spot it out of your peripheral vision your eye is drawn to it like magnet. I've spotted other hunters that I would've never seen had it not been that shiny gun or bow they were carrying! You guys that have spent a great deal of time in the woods know what I'm talking about.
I've seen the reflection (moving reflection that is) from an amazing distance. That's why my guns don't shine. If you can spot movement more easily then how much more can a deer spot that movement. If a trophy buck sees your reflection movement just a little it's like a signal mirror to him he won't even come near the ridge your on or the wood lot yer in!
You can't get in the woods before daylight and sit with yer gun propped up in the place you know the deer will magically align himself with yer sights. LOL! So I like to up the odds in my favor as much as possible.
Just my opinion and experience!
YMH&OS
Chuck Goodall
"The Original Huntin' Fool"
&
Kanawha Ranger Scribe
You can spot it out of your peripheral vision your eye is drawn to it like magnet. I've spotted other hunters that I would've never seen had it not been that shiny gun or bow they were carrying! You guys that have spent a great deal of time in the woods know what I'm talking about.
I've seen the reflection (moving reflection that is) from an amazing distance. That's why my guns don't shine. If you can spot movement more easily then how much more can a deer spot that movement. If a trophy buck sees your reflection movement just a little it's like a signal mirror to him he won't even come near the ridge your on or the wood lot yer in!
That pollution they see on a daily basis never moves if it did it'd spook the manure out of them!
You can't get in the woods before daylight and sit with yer gun propped up in the place you know the deer will magically align himself with yer sights. LOL! So I like to up the odds in my favor as much as possible.
Just my opinion and experience!
YMH&OS
Chuck Goodall
"The Original Huntin' Fool"
&
Kanawha Ranger Scribe
Guest
A deer's "movement accuity" is something close to 10 times that of a human's. The same goes for other animals in the same ungulate clan - moose and Elk, for instance. Their eye sight is inferior for definition, but movement is what spooks them into running to safety. That is why their eyes are on the sides of their heads - they are prey - and must be able to see almost 360 degrees to survive.
Charles/NM
36 Cal.
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I keep the brass on my rifle polished bright. I don't know if it's cost me deer, but it bothers me and seems out of place in the hunting field. I'm toying with the idea of making a tight fitting cloth sleeve to cover the stock on my rifle, leaving only the area around the lock, rear sight and the part of the barrel that is beyond the end of the stock uncovered.
