Breathing life into an old T/C >50 Hawken...

[contenderfan]

Been lurkin around for a while, figure its time I make a post. I picked up an old T/C .50 Hawken some time back and finally got a chance to shoot it recently. I wasnt expecting much out of it, as the bore was pretty rusted...but, oily patches went down very smooth after a thorough cleaning, so that was some encouragement indicating the absence of pitting.
After snapping 3 caps on an empty bore to ensure a clear fire channel, I loaded a 30 gr. squib charge, fired it, and then wiped one time in and out with a few light spritzes of straight Windex.
My first three shots I started out with 75 gr. of 3f Goex and the only patch material I had available, which was pre-cut commercial .015 patches that I lubed with a little Ballistol, and Hornady .490 RB's at 40 yards to give the old gun and my over 40 trifocal eyes a chance. The first three shots measured a solid 6" if not more...my hopes started dwindling.
I upped the charge to 80 grs. and the group opened up as well. Hmmm...Next three shots I lowered the charge to 70 grs. and the three balls went into a 3" group...now were gettin somewhere.
Next three shots everything was kept the same except for less Windex on the wiping patch...3 spritz instead of 4, just enough to get the patch down the bore and back out with out hanging up, leaving just a touch more fouling in for a better seal. 3 shots into 2" group...heehee...now we are REALLY getting somewhere! Next three shot I changed nothing, just let the bore settle in to the conditions...3 shots into 1 1/2" group...this is getting fun!
The last three shot group at 40 yards I changed nothing...wanting to see if the group would stay consistant, I did adjust the rear sight since the group was printing off the dot, I brought the elevation down and windage to the left as it was hitting high and right and fired three more shots. This group measures 1 1/8"....outside to outside. I think I might even be able to get this down smaller with just a touch tighter patching...looking foward to trying some .018 patching soon.

 

[William O.]

That's looking pretty good so far! You might want to use alcohol soaked cleaning patches for swabbing in between shots, it's cheap and works pretty good for me. You can also try polishing the bore some more, using steel wool, a scrub bright pad or something like JB's bore cleaner. Are you going to be mostly target shooting, hunting or both with this rifle?

 

[bigted]

well that just tears it! my same rifle wont come close to that for accuracy...looks super! nice group with the penny...say that was 40 yrds??? if so id not change a thingkeep us posted and nice shootin!!!

 

[BrownBear]

Boy, I've got some messing around of my own to do. And I'm not kidding!

A friend dropped by his older TC Hawken 50 cal to see if I can make it shoot. The bore seems decent, but he can't do much with it, and neither can another bud whose shooting I know and respect.

I was all set to bed the tang and assault the rifle in other ways, but you make me think that might be a last resort rather than a first.

Thanks, I hope!

 

[contenderfan]

Thanks for the kind words to all. Anytime someone brings me a rifle that they say wont shoot Rb's I always start with different patching. Ive found that most folk dont understand how important a tight patch and ball combo is for accuracy. Usually they will go with the thinner patch because its "easier to load."
Another culprit is usually way too much powder. I would start with those two variables first and see what happens.
The distance I was shooting was only 40 yards...for RB load development I usually shoot 50-60 but was kind of limited on space this particular day but, I think the results show great promise from this old rifle. This one will be with me opening morning. A touch tighter patching, and final tweaking of the sights and she will be ready to hunt.

 

[Big Iron]

You might also try 2 FG powder. I found it to give better groups in my old T/C. The manual that came with the rifle said that 70 grains was often the most accurate load with RB's.

Regards;

BI

 

[hawk]

:thumbsup:

 

[contenderfan]

Seems like everytime I try 2f powder things just fall apart. I dont care for the increase in the amount of shot to shot fouling that 2f leaves behind, making wiping between shots much more of a hassle, instead of an easy one time in and out I get with 3f...2f leaves behind so much fouling that it feels like a bore full of sand, even with a little more wiping solution on the patch.
I may give it another try someday, but for now I will stay with 3f and tiny groups.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you are getting noticeably MORE fouling using 2Fg, the load is not receiving enough compression to burn efficiently. Try putting a FILLER between the powder charge and your PRB or load of shot. ( With shot loads, you need some kind of OP wad( that fits) or OS card placed down over the filler, so that it can push the load of shot out the muzzle Evenly. Otherwise, the patterns spiral and are inconsistently( unpredictably) thin in spots.)

If you have a Properly SEATED OP wad over 2Fg powder, it should burn well, and leave no more residue than you get with 3Fg. After years of shooting my .50 with 2Fg powder, I finally got some properly sized OP wads, made of vegetable fiber, and tried it in my gun. Two things were obvious from the first shot:

The POI was higher at 50 yards using the OP wad.

The second was that I had to check the powder in my powder horn to make sure it was 2Fg and not 3Fg I loaded by mistake, because I didn't feel the normal " Grittiness" of fouling I had come to expect when I used 2Fg powder in that rifle. :shocked2: If I had put 3Fg powder in the rifle by mistake, That alone would explain the different POI I got at 50 yds.

Since I carry an extra can of both 2Fg and 3Fg powder in my range box, it was a simple matter of pouring a bit of 3Fg into my palm, and then pouring some of the powder from my horn to check.

As to cleaning between shots, try lubing the Barrel BEFORE you load the first powder charge. This will file the pores in the barrel and make it much easier to clean the barrel with just one patch( slightly dampened with spit) run down the barrel after each shot.

In Damp weather, I do Follow that dampened patch with one or more dry patches- letting the patches tell me how Wet the bore is after each shot.( Humidity changes throughout the day, changing the amount of CONDENSATION of moisture that occurs on the hot metal of your bore when the gun is fired.)

I like to load my PRB or shotload, using a lubed cleaning patch placed in front of my jag, and above the PRB or Os card, so that I can lube the barrel from the load to the muzzle with the same stroke of the rod. The lube protects the bore from rust during hunts, and keeps the fouling soft after the next shot, no matter how long the gun goes unfired.

With shot loads( in Smoothrifles), the lubed barrel protects the barrel from lead streaks, or plastic residue, if plastic wads are used. With a PRB, the added lube in the bore FEEDS the lube in the fabric patch as the ball leaves the barrel, making sure that there is enough lube in the patch to prevent it from burning.

If you are going to shoot Black Powder, you are going to get dirty. No way around it. Get over it. Use a hand over hand method on your wooden Ramrod when loading a PRB down the barrel, so you don't break the stick and hurt yourself.

Try taking a bottle of water, and a small container of liquid soap in your car/truck, with you to the range, and hunting, along with a roll of paper towels to use to clean your hands and gear. Take a cloth hand towel with your into the field ( earth tones work well to camouflage the towel- brown, black, dark(olive) green, red etc. If you are hunting in public lands, where there are lots of hunters around you, then carry a BLAZE ORANGE towel with you in the field, for Safety!) to wipe your hands, and the ramrod in the field when you load the gun there. A lot of competition Shooters at the range will have a towel clipped to their belts, or shooting vests, so carrying a towel even there is not going to raise any eyebrows, other than from people who will think, " Why didn't I think of that??" :shocked2: :blah: :idunno: :hmm:

I have found that if I make even the smallest attempt at keeping my hands clean(er) when shooting my BP guns, either hunting or at the range, the rest of me is much less likely to have BP residue all over! :nono: :blah: :thumbsup:

 

[BrownBear]

Seems like everytime I try 2f powder things just fall apart. I dont care for the increase in the amount of shot to shot fouling that 2f leaves behind, making wiping between shots much more of a hassle, instead of an easy one time in and out I get with 3f...2f leaves behind so much fouling that it feels like a bore full of sand, even with a little more wiping solution on the patch.
I may give it another try someday, but for now I will stay with 3f and tiny groups.

If it ain't broke, why fix it, right?

Good plan. I'm taking on that friend's rifle next time the rain stops, so I'll be using your methods.

 

[contenderfan]

Seems like everytime I try 2f powder things just fall apart. I dont care for the increase in the amount of shot to shot fouling that 2f leaves behind, making wiping between shots much more of a hassle, instead of an easy one time in and out I get with 3f...2f leaves behind so much fouling that it feels like a bore full of sand, even with a little more wiping solution on the patch.
I may give it another try someday, but for now I will stay with 3f and tiny groups.

If it ain't broke, why fix it, right?

Good plan. I'm taking on that friend's rifle next time the rain stops, so I'll be using your methods.

Good luck with the rifle and let us know what happens. I agree with the "If it aint broke dont fix it." but I have to admit Pauls suggestion of a wad over the powder is something I will have to experiment with some day, just for kicks. Thanks Paul.

 

[contenderfan]

As to cleaning between shots, try lubing the Barrel BEFORE you load the first powder charge. This will file the pores in the barrel and make it much easier to clean the barrel with just one patch( slightly dampened with spit) run down the barrel after each shot.

In Damp weather, I do Follow that dampened patch with one or more dry patches- letting the patches tell me how Wet the bore is after each shot.( Humidity changes throughout the day, changing the amount of CONDENSATION of moisture that occurs on the hot metal of your bore when the gun is fired.)

I like to load my PRB or shotload, using a lubed cleaning patch placed in front of my jag, and above the PRB or Os card, so that I can lube the barrel from the load to the muzzle with the same stroke of the rod. The lube protects the bore from rust during hunts, and keeps the fouling soft after the next shot, no matter how long the gun goes unfired.

I have experimented with this method several times over the years, I usually wind up with that first shot landing wayyyy out of the group, (usually way high for obvious reasons.) so I abandoned the practice just my personal experience though.

 

[Swampman]

I would avoid 2f.......The T/Cs are very accurate.