Breech plug fitting

[BigBoreBLR]

I was thinking about doing that zonie.

Should I leak check the plug once finished. Pressurize the barrel with shop air and look for bubbles in a water bath?

Or do you check for gas leakage residue after firing the gun a few times.

Although possible, I could see having a few have small leaks when doing by hand from time to time, even with experienced hands.

 

[galamb]

Timing a plug can be cause for washing down some Tums with Mylanta shooters.

Now it is important that you do it correctly.

I would say "be careful and as accurate as you can" but don't get so wrapped up in the process that you are afraid you will screw it up and stop trying.

I'm not saying you are, but this really isn't rocket science.

Even dropping a couple threads the plug is going to be more than strong enough.

There are a number of barrels out there that had plugs installed by 1) "the" factory or 2) very well known/respected barrel makers that have "significant" gaps between the plug face and the shoulder in the breech.

They are not "unsafe" - but barrel life may be reduced due to manure/crud getting trapped in the gap causing corrosion.

But having said that, there are a number of 20/30 year old rifles out there with that condition and the only way they are found out is if the plug is pulled for some reason.

The point I'm getting at there is being "cautious" and then there is being "overboard".

Yes, do snug the plug face up to the shoulder. If you take care/take your time it will be "fine" even if you are not "infinitesimally perfect".

40 years ago a barrel was cut/crowned/tapped at home.

The breech plug was a grade 5 "bolt" from the hardware store that was "bottomed out" in the bore you tapped yourself.

So get it as close as you can, call it good and move on to the next operation.

 

[Zonie]

I agree with galamb.

Ideally, the breech plug will fit tightly all around the bore.
This rarely happens good enough to stop all leakage so doing a pressure test to see if it is leaking a little bit isn't really needed.

If the face of the breech plug shows skuffing marks around its outer face when lightly tightened into the barrel and then removed for a look at, that's good enough.

 

[ohio ramrod]

I have found many barrels with a large internal gap where the bore is drilled and tapped deeper than the breech plug. This makes for poor cleaning and often a "stuck" patch when swabbing. My solution is not an easy one but it is effective. I pull the breech plug (I know this will make many shutter). Measure the bore depth and the breech plug threaded length. Then I make a "bushing " out of copper (Barrel bore I.D recess bore O.D. that will fill the gap plus .001 to .002.in length. Then I insert the bushing and reassemble. Using anti-seize. This will "seat" the soft copper bushing and seal the breech. It isn't easy but it works !I know many people would object to pulling the breech plug but I find it is the best way to solve the problem. :idunno:

 

[galamb]

Yes, I am aware of others as well who have silver soldered a piece on the end.

But as I have noted, it does not appear to be "unsafe" - cause issues cleaning, sure - give rust a place to start, absolutely.

But I also believe there are people in the BP community who intentionally try and scare individuals from timing their own plugs giving the impression that it requires rocket science precision or you are going to toast yourself.

If you can't tell the difference between a screwdriver and a file then perhaps it is beyond your ability. But if you are reasonably mechanically inclined, it can be done "at home" with simple hand tools.

 

[longcruise]

I have read several reports from buyers of Colerain barrels who have discovered the breech plug to be quite short of the seat in the barrel. There are probably many more that were purchased and used with the builder not noticing or caring about it!

You can imagine that a Colerain employee in a hurry would find it easier to "time" by simply lining up on the flats.

Would not stop me from purchasing a Colerain barrel, but it would be with the expectation that I'd be re-breeching it.

 

[galamb]

That's exactly why I order all my barrels "un-breeched".

Besides, I only build with patent style breeches and prefer to use those made by Pete Allan (ok superstitious)

I wasn't going to mention Colerain by name. They make a fine barrel but I have also heard of (inconsistencies) with their factory installed plugs.

 

[don hepler]

At least someone, understands what I meant about, filing a breech plug, not being much fun. I caught a lot of "flak" for mentioning a "Lathe".

But yet, they don't mind using "Dial Calipers", "Belt Sanders", etc. At least I didn't use a Dremel. Lathes go back to the 1700's. There were a lot of lathes by the 18th century. I'm pretty sure, hand operated lathes, preceded belt sanders.

 

[galamb]

I didn't take the "knock" against the lathe as being "too modern", just beyond the budget of the average hobby builder.

I wish I could justify a lathe - just don't do enough to fork over the bucks for something that would sit most of the time.

And yes, I could probably find lot's to use it for but I already have about a thousand unfinished projects, so don't need more :rotf:

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Thanks guy,

I got it right on the money the 2nd time. Which worked even better. The factory I'd numbers were exposed on the lock side the first time, now they're one flat over and hiding under the wood.

I used spray paint instead of prussian blue.

Now I am on to bending the tang. Any pointers there. I was going to draw file the tang flush with the barrel and use heat from my mapp hand torch t bend it down a bit, but how much is the question. I was also going to taper the back side of the tang for easier inleting.

 

[longcruise]

They can be bent cold by laying them across the open jaws of a vice or better two pieces of hardwood. Don't drill any holes in it till its shaped as you want it.

 

[jerrywh]

Lathes go back thousands of years.

 

[don hepler]

Yes, back to ancient Chinese and Egypt. Lathes are said to be the oldest tool above hand tools.

 

[BigBoreBLR]

Galamb,

Why do you like patent breeches?

My only flintlock the is assembled right now is a lyman GPR. That thing has plenty of problems to get it firing when it's dirty. I might be too easy to blame the patent chamber. But, it's the only thing I can't clean well without a proper water bath cleaning.

Anything special you do to keep the flash hole and chamber area clean and well functioning when going to a woodwalk shoot or after let's say a dozen or more shots.

I have been thinking of doing a quick 2 minute clean in the middle of a woodswalk shoot, or even temted to bring 2 guns. I get spark, I get a pan flash, but no reliable bang after about 10 shots.

I pick well. I use a spit moistened patch down the bore every 2nd shot. I wipe the pan down with a rag after each shot.

 

[Vaino]

The "patent breech" was a welcome change from the drum asre strength and safety...but it also introduced cleaning and reliability in firing problems. Not all "patent breeches" have these problems...my TC Hawhen has never failed to fire due to the "patent breech". But, evidently this design is excellent and "dunking" the breech end in a bucket of hot water also helps a great deal.

IMO, A "patent breech" in a flintlock is an unnecessary complication....so why even consider it?

To inlet a breedhplug tang.....first off, make a cardboard template of at least 1 inch of the bbl and the wrist dropoff. The tang should be bent cold....no need to heat. Install the breechplug in the bbl, loosely clamp the tang in a vise and pull on the bbl to bend the tang. I first clamp the tang near the bolster and then progressively move back to the end. When the tang is close to the template, it's done. Doesn't have to be perfect because it'll be filed after inletting. The bending might take a few tries.

There's usually a large radius at the juncture of the tang bottom and bolster and this should be filed to a 1/32" radius. Also, I file the back of the bolster at an angle so it's just sufficient for a wrench to bear. This is done so the wrist slope drops off at the breech end of the bbl....many rifles have a somewhat flat length behind the breech end and this should be avoided because it looks lousy.....Fred

 

[jerrywh]

I have remover about a half dozen original breech plugs. None of them were seated or even had a seat. None of them were the least bit dangerous. They seem to corrode to a certain level and then stop corroding. None of them were rusted out but most were corroded some. Seating is ideal but not mandatory in my opinion. Nobody in this generation will ever live long enough to see a average breech plug rust out. When a barrel is completely worn out the plug will still be safe. I think the reason so many are worried about breech plugs is because their face is right behind it. Behind the breech plug is probably the safest position to be in. Your arms and hands are more likely to suffer from a mishap. I know of two guys named bad hand. Guess why.
Of all the guns I have seen blown up none of them blew the breach plug. It is always the barrel and most of the time it is near the muzzle.