So, when you get a new gun that has a threaded breech plug, do you take it out and do anything to it? Apply grease or anti-seize? Or do you just let it be, and not think about its existence unless you really need to access the bore of the gun from the breech end?
Breech Plug On a New Gun
- Thread starter TDDredge
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There is absolutely no reason to ever remove the breech plug unless you need to access the barrel from the breech end.
What gun do you have that makes you think you need to remove the breech plug first thing? Do you have the tools to remove one?
This is what I was suspicious of. The reason I asked was to see if the threads needed to be treated at all before the gun was taken out and used. Happy to leave it alone.
I didn't know if I needed to remove it hence I asked, and no I don't. I was relating experience (well, not personal, I learned from the failures of others) from modern firearms. Never take the chokes out of your shotgun until you need to, tell me how it goes. I wasn't sure if this was a similar situation to that, where you want something on those threads so it doesn't rust itself shut (which in theory won't happen because I will absolutely clean it thoroughly), but since it's black powder and I'm fairly new to black powder, I asked.
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In 45 years I've removed one (stuck cleaning brush that pulled apart). Buggered up the barrel and alignment. In 44 years I've never tried it again. Many work-arounds so it is unnecessary. Like not using a cleaning brush that is swaged to the threaded collet instead of drilled through and wrapped around it. Or avoiding brushes entirely.
This is about what I suspected, however I wanted to be sure. I'm fairly new to black powder. Like I mentioned to someone above, I was relating experience from modern firearms, which is to say that if you ignore the choke in your shotgun until a year later when you want to change it out, you're going to find that choke is now part of your barrel. I wasn't sure if this might be a similar situation where you need to take care of it, but I also assumed I was wrong because many things are different about black powder and that in theory should never come out. So I asked before I touched anything, and I have received an answer. No stupid questions, only stupid people who ask them, and I just got a little less stupid
So thank you for that, and it is duly noted!This is kind of what I figured, but I wanted to be sure in case it was something that you might need to actually go after, so you protected the threads. In theory though, it should never come out. But I wanted to ask to be sure.In 45 years I've removed one (stuck cleaning brush that pulled apart). Buggered up the barrel and alignment. In 44 years I've never tried it again. Many work-arounds so it is unnecessary. Like not using a cleaning brush that is swaged to the threaded collet instead of drilled through and wrapped around it. Or avoiding brushes entirely.
Welcome to the forum.
You just go ahead an ask, ya might have ta pick through it a bit, but you'll find sage advice here.
You just go ahead an ask, ya might have ta pick through it a bit, but you'll find sage advice here.
Like I said above, there are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ask them. And I got a little less stupid without having to make a mistake, which I call a win. If I don't know, I'm gonna ask. I've got a very high round count in modern firearms, but if I had to count how many times I've bought beeswax and lard for an auto loader, I wouldn't be counting for very long. You know how much thought goes into my loads for those guns? Zero. I put the cartridge in the magazine, load it up and away we go. I tried to do my research switching over, but I inevitably missed some little things. Going into black powder, I assumed the breech was always simply welded and sealed. Then I found out that sometimes it isn't, which threw me for a loop. Doesn't really bother me if people get snippy so long as I get my answer. And I have it: don't touch the damn thing. Sage advice achieved!Welcome to the forum.
You just go ahead an ask, ya might have ta pick through it a bit, but you'll find sage advice here.
You didn't mention what kind of gun.
Modern inline muzzleloader or traditional sidelock?
The breech plug on an inline is designed to be removed for cleaning and lubricating.
Not so on a traditional gun.
Modern inline muzzleloader or traditional sidelock?
The breech plug on an inline is designed to be removed for cleaning and lubricating.
Not so on a traditional gun.
In 45 years I've removed one (stuck cleaning brush that pulled apart). Buggered up the barrel and alignment. In 44 years I've never tried it again. Many work-arounds so it is unnecessary. Like not using a cleaning brush that is swaged to the threaded collet instead of drilled through and wrapped around it. Or avoiding brushes entirely.
Just for educational purposes here. There are ways to remove one of those type of garbage brushes from your gun without removing the breech plug. When that unfortunate event happens. Stop. Go to the local plumbing supplier and get a piece of PVC, CPVC, or PEX that is just small enough OD to fit inside your bore. Get a long enough piece to fit all the way down with some to spare. Insert the pipe into your barrel and the ID of the pipe will go down over the stuck brush freeing it from the bore. Been there, done that.
Most new guns will have the breech plug installed so tightly it will be almost impossible to remove it.
So I am going to go back to what is the proper breech plug installation when building a rifle and the breech plug is not factory installed. There are two places where the breech plug and the barrel have to meet. One is where the tang at the base of the breech plug and the rear of the barrel meet to align on the barrel flat. The other place is at the end of the threads in the barrel and the face of the breech plug. The perfect fit on the face of the breech plug closes off the gaps that may allow corrosion to get into the threads and after a lot of use may weaken the breech. New barrel and breech plug installation should be done to align the bore so that if the bore is not centered, the flat that is closest to the bore is on the bottom. Do use a never seize lubricant on the threads.
Traditions rifles with a drum breech have the drum installed through the breech plug. It is not recommended (by means of voiding the warranty) to remove the breech plug on a Traditions/CVA rifle.
Factory guns shouldn't require removal of the breech plug for lubrication. Traditional design muzzle loaders shouldn't require removal of the breech plug for periodic maintenance.
Don't confuse the traditional guns with the modern in-line muzzle loaders- those plugs you can take out easily. On the traditional you have to have all the flats line up and in some cases, on a percussion, with a drum, the drum may protrude a bit into the plug threads, meaning you have to take or back off the drum in order to take out the plug. So leave it alone
I have a cheap borescope, nice to have to check the breech. On one occasion I found I wasn't getting my breech face as clean as I should have and bought breech plug scraper to assist in my cleaning procedure. I also found out the liner is threaded into the breech plug, it is a good thing I didn't try to pull the plug first without looking. As it turns out the builder(early 70s) used finishing nails for barrel pins and left the heads on, no way to remove them without tearing a chunk out of the stock at each one. I found out the hard way and only removed one pin, I patched the hole, it doesn't show. The barrel will always have to stay in place.
Before and after;
Another time I looked down the bore of a new gun and noticed the drum was installed a little too far into the barrel. I pulled the breechplug, it had the most perfect plug to breech fit I have ever seen. I trimmed the drum a little, reinstalled the breech plug and went out shooting.
Sometimes you have to pull a breechplug if something crops up but rarely.
Before and after;
Another time I looked down the bore of a new gun and noticed the drum was installed a little too far into the barrel. I pulled the breechplug, it had the most perfect plug to breech fit I have ever seen. I trimmed the drum a little, reinstalled the breech plug and went out shooting.
Sometimes you have to pull a breechplug if something crops up but rarely.
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I think I build more than I shoot sometimes. For certain I spend the most time building, mostly flintlocks.
Sometimes It is necessary to drill and tap the touchhole into the breech plug for the touchhole liner. Then is necessary to pull the breech plug, then take a Dremel or similar tool to smooth things down. The touchhole itself, after drilling, needs to have the inner threads smoothed out.
WHENEVER you have to remove the breech plug, be sure to put anti-seize on the threads. I have a hard time thinking about a reason to pull the plug on a finished muzzle loader, but I guess it could happen.
Pedersoli, and many other manufacturers will have the percussion drum drilled into the breechplug, making it impossible to remove the plug without first removing the percussion drum.
Personally, I try hard to install a touchhole liner at least 1/8" in front of the plug. I also like to chamfer the liner on the inside - that will prevent a cleaning patch from snagging on the liner. There are several old-fashioned tools made for reaching into the breech for the chamfering process, but I just use my Foredom flex-shaft tool with a ball on the end for that chore.
Sometimes It is necessary to drill and tap the touchhole into the breech plug for the touchhole liner. Then is necessary to pull the breech plug, then take a Dremel or similar tool to smooth things down. The touchhole itself, after drilling, needs to have the inner threads smoothed out.
WHENEVER you have to remove the breech plug, be sure to put anti-seize on the threads. I have a hard time thinking about a reason to pull the plug on a finished muzzle loader, but I guess it could happen.
Pedersoli, and many other manufacturers will have the percussion drum drilled into the breechplug, making it impossible to remove the plug without first removing the percussion drum.
Personally, I try hard to install a touchhole liner at least 1/8" in front of the plug. I also like to chamfer the liner on the inside - that will prevent a cleaning patch from snagging on the liner. There are several old-fashioned tools made for reaching into the breech for the chamfering process, but I just use my Foredom flex-shaft tool with a ball on the end for that chore.
Apologies, it is a side lock. 1861 springfield repro. So from what you're saying, definitely a no go.
Definitely a no go.
I have a few guns that are over 30 years old. Breech plugs have never been taken out. No need to.
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