Brown Bess and ball/loading questions

[pacanis]

Hi guys.
I have some questions on the next gun in my life, a Brown Bess Carbine repro.

I've read through several threads here and it seems a patched .735 ball is the way to go for accuracy.
I've also seen a lot of guys saying they shoot a .690 ball with tow.

In my possession I have a .710 mold... see where I'm going with this?

What are the accuracy differences between the 690 and the 735 shot their respective ways? Does anyone here shoot both? Are they for different applications? Where you might need mulitple easy reloads for one thing, but for hunting you want the most accuracy your gun can give you the first shot?
Will I do myself a disservice by shooting a 710 ball? And yes. I'm trying to save myself some money on not buying another mold or two if I don't have to.

Also, are the 12ga felt wads, nitro cards and overshot cards close enough? The overshot card comes in a little light at .742, but the 1/2" wad and the over powder card both measure .750. I know they are harder than heck to load in my 12 ga SxS, but should be a perfect fit in the BB. Unless they should measure a few thou larger...

I'm trying to get myself a casual shooter I can load various ways; ball, shot, buck and ball. No competitions and I'm not a reenactor, but I do like an accurate gun and I might hunt with it eventually.

Thanks for your input.

 

[pacanis]

Oh, and can I use a 12ga jag to clean the BB?
I just looked for a .75 cal jag and did not see one.

 

[pacanis]

Well never mind.

I waited several hours but my approval is still being reviewed.

I went ahead and ordered the .690 and the .735 molds when I ordered the gun to save on shipping. I really didn't want to if I didn't need to, but we all know how supply and demand is these days and I figured five hours was long enough before I pulled the trigger on the gun. The buying frenzy will start again as people anticipate their checks from the IRS in a week.

I'd still appreciate any input (when my thread goes "public") on using .690 balls compared to .735. When does one choose one over the other. Are the .690's just for paper cartridges?

But as for now, my .710 mold can still be relegated to my 12ga.

 

[tenngun]

I have several sizes for my .62
The .690 will be great for paper cartridge
Both sizes will work for a patched ball and the bigger .735 is great for bare with wads.
I use tow or paper wading so can’t help you about commercial sized wads

 

[Grenadier1758]

@pacanis, Muzzle Loader Builders' Supply has several jags for 75 caliber firearms. The 12 gauge (0.690" jag) can work with the 75 caliber Brown Bess which is closer to a 10 gauge than a 12 gauge. You have to use thick cleaning patches.

Here is the link to the supplier:
https://www.muzzleloaderbuilderssup...27850&next=75&product=Rods-Tips-Jags&Starters
As to what size to use, that can be pretty open to what is your intent. I have used 0.690, 0.710 and 0.715 balls as well as a rather irregular 0.710 to 0.729 ball from an antique mold. and paper patched them. You want a ball and patch to fit smoothly in the bore of the musket. Since you are not reenacting, the larger ball will be the most accurate on target. As far as what to shoot, you can load wads between the powder and ball with an overshot card to hold the ball in position. A nest of tow (strands of waste fiber from making of linen, strands of jute, hemp, sisal or manila twine) does a fine job of holding the ball in the bore and with a small wad of tow to cover the ball.

What is to be chosen is really what works best for you.

 

[flintlock lover.]

Well never mind.

I waited several hours but my approval is still being reviewed.

I went ahead and ordered the .690 and the .735 molds when I ordered the gun to save on shipping. I really didn't want to if I didn't need to, but we all know how supply and demand is these days and I figured five hours was long enough before I pulled the trigger on the gun. The buying frenzy will start again as people anticipate their checks from the IRS in a week.

I'd still appreciate any input (when my thread goes "public") on using .690 balls compared to .735. When does one choose one over the other. Are the .690's just for paper cartridges?

But as for now, my .710 mold can still be relegated to my 12ga.

My Pedersoli BB handles .735 ball IF you're using a .010 patch. Normally I use a .715
With .020 patching. Patching gives fairly easily, lead not so much.
Accuracy is better than most folks expect out of a big smooth bore.
If you have purchased one of the repos made in India, their bore size is smaller.
.70 or .69 is your max with a 15 patch.

 

[Louisk]

Please keep us posted on how things go. I'm in a similar place. Picked up a Pedersoli Bess Carbine last Sept. but haven't fired it yet. I haven't gotten into casting lead and was wondering if I'd shoot enough to pay for a melting pot and molds. I ordered .735 balls from TOTW and am now thinking it wouldn't take a huge amount of shooting to pay for casting my own, since with shipping, etc. buying store bought balls run cost north of a buck a shot. Where did you order your molds? Thanks.

 

[cositrike]

Hi guys.
I have some questions on the next gun in my life, a Brown Bess Carbine repro.

I've read through several threads here and it seems a patched .735 ball is the way to go for accuracy.
I've also seen a lot of guys saying they shoot a .690 ball with tow.

In my possession I have a .710 mold... see where I'm going with this?

What are the accuracy differences between the 690 and the 735 shot their respective ways? Does anyone here shoot both? Are they for different applications? Where you might need mulitple easy reloads for one thing, but for hunting you want the most accuracy your gun can give you the first shot?
Will I do myself a disservice by shooting a 710 ball? And yes. I'm trying to save myself some money on not buying another mold or two if I don't have to.

Also, are the 12ga felt wads, nitro cards and overshot cards close enough? The overshot card comes in a little light at .742, but the 1/2" wad and the over powder card both measure .750. I know they are harder than heck to load in my 12 ga SxS, but should be a perfect fit in the BB. Unless they should measure a few thou larger...

I'm trying to get myself a casual shooter I can load various ways; ball, shot, buck and ball. No competitions and I'm not a reenactor, but I do like an accurate gun and I might hunt with it eventually.

Thanks for your input.

How do you know the bore size, if you haven’t got it yet? Until you’ve miced the barrel, you won’t know the true caliber

 

[pacanis]

Thanks for the input.

I've used tow in my fowler, so am familiar with it. I love it for holding the ball in place, but could not get a good shot pattern using it. Yet.

I'll have to look for the .10 patch material. I have the red and the blue ticking on hand.


@Grenadier1758
Thanks for the link. I had not heard of them before.


@Louisk , I got the molds at Dixie, where I ordered the gun from. So it worked out for shipping anyway. And it was just luck they happened to have both the way things are. And I ordered the same gun as you

 

[pacanis]

How do you know the bore size, if you haven’t got it yet? Until you’ve miced the barrel, you won’t know the true caliber

I threw caution to the wind and went by the description (FR0665 Dixie Brown Bess Trade Gun) and what I've read others are using in theirs.

 

[Some_Mook]

Please keep us posted on how things go. I'm in a similar place. Picked up a Pedersoli Bess Carbine last Sept. but haven't fired it yet. I haven't gotten into casting lead and was wondering if I'd shoot enough to pay for a melting pot and molds. I ordered .735 balls from TOTW and am now thinking it wouldn't take a huge amount of shooting to pay for casting my own, since with shipping, etc. buying store bought balls run cost north of a buck a shot. Where did you order your molds? Thanks.

Buffalo Arms usually has a good selection of Lyman round ball molds. You might want to try the .735 RB that you bought and then perhaps try .715 or another size of purchased cast round balls before you pull the trigger on buying casting equipment.

Casting boolets is a hobby unto it's own. Check out the cast boolets forum and you might find yourself saving some money.

 

[pacanis]

Buffalo arms were the only ones that had the Lyman 292gr bullet mold in stock for my 45-60.

 

[Grenadier1758]

I threw caution to the wind and went by the description (FR0665 Dixie Brown Bess Trade Gun) and what I've read others are using in theirs.

One of the better purchases that I would recommend @pacanis to buy is a digital vernier caliper. It measures both inside and outside dimensions and depth. The price is reasonable at about $20. The version at Harbor Freight. is reasonably accurate. You need it to measure bore diameter, patch thickness.

I like the selection from Midway USA and a good one is on sale.

https://www.midwayusa.com/s?searchTerm=digital caliper

 

[pacanis]

I already have a digital and analog V caliper and a mic. Don't need one more
Handy measuring tools for sure.

 

[flintlock lover.]

Good! You bought a Pedersoli.
You should be happy with that gun.
Their bore has been consistent gun to gun with the three I've owned through the years.
Still have my favorite one. Once in a great while I've heard of people polishing the bore out some. I did mine, but only because I'm a truly picky old bastard and didn't want to see ANY machine marks in the bore.
Doubt that I took more than.002 out of the bore and no guarantee that it improved anything more than just in my mind.
With .715 ball patched with.020 ticking, She'll wear out a 9 inch steel plate at 82 yards through.
With #6 shot over waxed 11ga wads and 80 grs of 2fg, she has sent many a squirrel/rabbit to the stew pot.

 

[Rifleman1776]

The Pedersoli BB bore size are inconsistent. I used a patched .715" ball with mine. Your .710" might be just fine. These are not rifle. Try it and see what happens. You can make a jag with simple tools. Almost any material will work. (e.g. Delrin, antler, wood, brass, etc.). Just cut into approximate size drill a hole same size as your rod tip, screw in a machine screw with head cut off. If you have a drill press, chuck it up and use a file to bring down to size and cut some grooves.

 

[Grenadier1758]

...
If you have purchased one of the repos made in India, their bore size is smaller.
.70 or .69 is your max with a 15 patch.

Not necessarily true that a gun made in India will have a smaller bore. Their patterns may have bore diameters over a wide range. My Long Land Pattern Musket has a bore diameter of 0.780". Don't guess on bore diameter. It is easy to measure. I can easily use a 0.735" ball with a 0.025" patch or 10 gauge wads.

 

[pacanis]

Good! You bought a Pedersoli.
You should be happy with that gun.
Their bore has been consistent gun to gun with the three I've owned through the years.
Still have my favorite one. Once in a great while I've heard of people polishing the bore out some. I did mine, but only because I'm a truly picky old bastard and didn't want to see ANY machine marks in the bore.
Doubt that I took more than.002 out of the bore and no guarantee that it improved anything more than just in my mind.
With .715 ball patched with.020 ticking, She'll wear out a 9 inch steel plate at 82 yards through.
With #6 shot over waxed 11ga wads and 80 grs of 2fg, she has sent many a squirrel/rabbit to the stew pot.

The Pedersoli BB bore size are inconsistent. I used a patched .715" ball with mine. Your .710" might be just fine. These are not rifle. Try it and see what happens. You can make a jag with simple tools. Almost any material will work. (e.g. Delrin, antler, wood, brass, etc.). Just cut into approximate size drill a hole same size as your rod tip, screw in a machine screw with head cut off. If you have a drill press, chuck it up and use a file to bring down to size and cut some grooves.

Good info.
Thanks guys.

I'm really looking forward to getting it. Dixie always takes a couple days to ship, but once they do it always gets here sooner than expected. I'm hoping to have it by the weekend. Then I'll have to learn how to cast

I've got all the stuff, the pot, the lead, the tin, the other stuff needed, but whenever I get a gun I always buy the projectiles, so until those are gone I haven't even plugged in my pot yet. I'm looking forward to casting, too.

 

[Some_Mook]

Then I'll have to learn how to cast

I've got all the stuff....the tin....

You may want to do some research. I think you will find that you will be better off just using pure lead to cast your round balls.

 

[Artificer]

I already have a digital and analog V caliper and a mic. Don't need one more
Handy measuring tools for sure.

Hi Pacanis and WELCOME to the forum!

I had a Pedersoli Brown Bess "Carbine" I shot competitively with .735 cal. round balls and shot. My bore measured .753/.754 and ELEVEN (11) gauge cards and wads were a perfect fit for that bore size. I never had time to develop the best shot load for it, though, so I will leave suggestions for that to others.

OK a little history of the Bess is in order. The ORIGINAL British Ordnance mandated bore size was ".76 cal." or what we would call .760" today, BUT the actual approved period bore sizes ran from .76 to .78 cal. because they did not have precision measuring instruments nor the ability to hold tolerances any tighter back then on such large quantities of arms. Also, the ORIGINAL British Ordnance mandated Ball Size was ".69 cal." or .690" BUT that was inside the paper wrapped cartridge. Unfired Original Balls for the Brown Bess have been excavated all over America, though, and the actual sizes ran from .690" to .720" with .710" size the most common.

Since your bore size will likely be similar to mine at .753/.754 " (though you should verify that with precision Calipers), the .69 cal ball mold you ordered should work very well for making paper wrapped cartridges, should you wish to do so.

OK, I admit I'm somewhat obsessed with getting the most accuracy out of my guns, because I want to know when a shot goes wrong, it is my fault and not the gun. I don't expect a smoothbore to shoot as accurately as a rifle, but I want it to be as accurate as it can be. My accuracy load in my Pedersoli Carbine with the .753//.754 " bore was a .735" ball, a well lubed ticking patch (I take my calipers inside the Fabric Store and bought the "thinner" ticking that was around .014" thick), and 70 grains of Dupont FFFg powder. Your powder charge may/will vary with any other powder for the best accuracy in your Bess.

I HAD to use a BIG short starter with the above tight patched ball load similar to the one linked below. Remember I said I was somewhat obsessed? Grin. Well, I took a .735" lead ball, some 150 grit emory cloth (sandpaper for metal) and put the abrasive side of the cloth next to BOTH brass ends on the short starter. I used the ball to push against the cloth while turning it to reshape the brass ends closer to the actual size of the ball. OK, so why in the Heck did I do that? The sanded/reshaped brass ends did not dig into and leave a ding or ring on the ball when using the short starter over the sprue. I think not having the lead balls dinged/ringed allowed a little better accuracy, though I admit I'd be hard pressed to fully document that. I was taught to do it on my rifle short starter brass ends, so I did it for my Brown Bess short starter.
https://www.trackofthewolf.com/Categories/PartDetail.aspx/118/3/ST-8
I could absolutely count on the fact at 25 yards (Offhand) that my ball would split on the axe head and each piece would shatter the clay pigeons hung on each side. At 100 yards, I could hit a one gallon milk jug 8 out of 10 times from the Offhand, but the gun could have done it at least 9 times out of ten. I wasn't as good of a shot then as I learned to be later.

OK, this is running long and so I don't lose it, will continue in my next post.
Gus