Brown Bess Options?

[Comfortably_Numb]

Well, you can invest some money and spend some time waiting and get a very good piece, or you can get something not quite right and satisfy your need of instant gratification and have something of little value. Pretty simple choices.

 

[dave_person]

Hi,
Thanks for the endorsements guys but I am booked up for several years including making a bunch of Besses and other British guns. First, I would not recommend a Brown Bess for general shooting or even hunting. It is a big heavy gun with a bore that uses a lot of powder and lead. An English fowler is far superior for hunting and general shooting with a smooth bore. With respect to the patterns of Besses, the early long lands, patterns 1730, 1742, and 1748 are the best shooters because they had a bit more drop at heel than the later patterns. However, they have heavy long barrels. Stocks got a bit straighter with the last long land musket, the pattern 1756 and even straighter with all the short land patterns. On many short lands and all of the short land repros (Miroku, Pedersoli, etc) the stocks are so straight I cannot get my cheek down on the stocks to aim. I am sure they fit some folks Ok but not if you have much of a neck. Don't get me wrong, I love the Brown Bess. It and its 18th century British, French, and American military cousins are the only plain guns I like to build. Nonetheless, I have no desire to shoot a Brown Bess on a regular basis. I much prefer English fowlers, English sporting rifles, and American long rifles for that purpose.

dave

 

[Rudyard]

Hi,
Thanks for the endorsements guys but I am booked up for several years including making a bunch of Besses and other British guns. First, I would not recommend a Brown Bess for general shooting or even hunting. It is a big heavy gun with a bore that uses a lot of powder and lead. An English fowler is far superior for hunting and general shooting with a smooth bore. With respect to the patterns of Besses, the early long lands, patterns 1730, 1742, and 1748 are the best shooters because they had a bit more drop at heel than the later patterns. However, they have heavy long barrels. Stocks got a bit straighter with the last long land musket, the pattern 1756 and even straighter with all the short land patterns. On many short lands and all of the short land repros (Miroku, Pedersoli, etc) the stocks are so straight I cannot get my cheek down on the stocks to aim. I am sure they fit some folks Ok but not if you have much of a neck. Don't get me wrong, I love the Brown Bess. It and its 18th century British, French, and American military cousins are the only plain guns I like to build. Nonetheless, I have no desire to shoot a Brown Bess on a regular basis. I much prefer English fowlers, English sporting rifles, and American long rifles for that purpose.

dave

I agree completely re its use as a fowling piece at least the old ones Ide pass on Any long rifle as too ponderous ( expecting to get howls of protest) but that's my findings 28 '' is as long as needed in a rifle ..But of course tastes differ , but 'wand like' is better than heavy in a fowling piece.in my view .
Rudyard

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

It's not the barrel length that kills it as a fowling gun, It's the horrendous lock time.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, gang.

I do own a couple of nice trade guns but wanted to try out a military musket.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Rifle Shoppe got back to me and said they had an India pattern with assembled lock for immediate shipment.

Should I get it? I will need to hire a builder if so.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Rifle Shoppe got back to me and said they had an India pattern with assembled lock for immediate shipment.

Should I get it? I will need to hire a builder if so.

I’m gonna be the devil on your should. Do it.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

I’m gonna be the devil on your should. Do it.

Thank you sir. The only thing holding me back is finding a builder who could complete it in a reasonable time. I simply do not have the skill for it, and wouldn’t want to botch such a good kit.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Thank you sir. The only thing holding me back is finding a builder who could complete it in a reasonable time. I simply do not have the skill for it, and wouldn’t want to botch such a good kit.

If you have the kit in hand, you can always eventually find someone to put it together or help you. Don’t be afraid to step out of your comfort zone to try something completely new to you. You just might surprise yourself.

 

[FlinterNick]

Rifle Shoppe got back to me and said they had an India pattern with assembled lock for immediate shipment.

Should I get it? I will need to hire a builder if so.

The also have a light infantry 1760 pattern in stock too in 62 caliber.

While it’s not a brown bess, it’s one of the finest handling British military arms I’ve ever seen and held.

If I had to chose, between a third model and a 1760 flight infantry I’d got for the light infantry gun, and now that I’ve announced it here, it may not be there tomorrow.

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

The also have a light infantry 1760 pattern in stock too in 62 caliber.

While it’s not a brown bess, it’s one of the finest handling British military arms I’ve ever seen and held.

If I had to chose, between a third model and a 1760 flight infantry I’d got for the light infantry gun, and now that I’ve announced it here, it may not be there tomorrow.

Wow, neat! Is .62 caliber period correct? A quick search came up with everything from .66 to .69 caliber for originals??

 

[cebusey]

Because cheap is always going to be cheap. Out of curiosity I went over and perused the offerings from India. Craptacular is being polite.

Before your evaluation how many different companies did you look at? Have you even held one in your hands? I own 2 from Loyalist and have been very happy with them. One I have owned and shot for over 20 years with no issues. Pretty craptacular huh?

 

[FlinterNick]

Before your evaluation how many different companies did you look at? Have you even held one in your hands? I own 2 from Loyalist and have been very happy with them. One I have owned and shot for over 20 years with no issues. Pretty craptacular huh?

Well one of the problems with ordering an Indian made bess is that they’re all different, and you don’t get to hand select the one you want. I’ve seen some that look very nice and some that don’t, and there’s quite a bit of work that still needs to be done to them.

A rifle shoppe kit has yet to be finished, Pedersoli’s for the most part are all the same, one is not very different from another.

But the truest bess to an original is a rifle shoppe kit, neither a pedersoli or Indian made bess will ever be correct or can be made correct, they can be modified but with limitations.

 

[Clark Badgett]

Before your evaluation how many different companies did you look at? Have you even held one in your hands? I own 2 from Loyalist and have been very happy with them. One I have owned and shot for over 20 years with no issues. Pretty craptacular huh?

Yes, they are pretty craptacular. Cheap is still cheap regardless of how it hurts your feelings. When Veteran Arms uses a picture as a representation it’s probably as good as it’s going to get, and damn those things are horrendous. They are little more than movie prop level garbage.

 

[Pipe welder John]

I’d love a Brown Bess as a shooter, so that means most likely a reproduction.

I see Pedersoli is selling there’s for $1700:

https://muzzle-loaders.com/products...5-cal-flintlock-s-260#shopify-product-reviews
Is it worth that price? Any issues with these? Other than that, there’s the Indian made ones and I know that’s a whole different kettle of fish. Curious is any custom builders can make one for me?

If a guy wanted a Brown Bess to shoot what would you do? Thanks!

I have an old one that’s never been fired it was my
Fathers not sure who made it probably pedersoli as it is very nice has my fathers name
Engraved on
Butt plate and as I am left handed don’t know what to do with it was gonna squirrel hunt but the lock is on. The way am interested in a nice trade

 

[kylewayne33]

Thank you. I emailed the Rifle Shoppe to see what they had available.

I have heard stories that it can take the better part of half a decade to get parts from them.

You might want to call them instead of emailing them. I have emailed them a few times with no response. So in my experience calling them would be quicker was to get a response.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

I have an old one that’s never been fired it was my
Fathers not sure who made it probably pedersoli as it is very nice has my fathers name
Engraved on
Butt plate and as I am left handed don’t know what to do with it was gonna squirrel hunt but the lock is on. The way am interested in a nice trade

It doesn't matter if you're left handed.

 

[Pipe welder John]

It doesn't matter if you're left handed.

I’ll post pictures later but would trade for a blckpowder shotgun or squirrel rifle of comparable value or sell

 

[Rudyard]

Before your evaluation how many different companies did you look at? Have you even held one in your hands? I own 2 from Loyalist and have been very happy with them. One I have owned and shot for over 20 years with no issues. Pretty craptacular huh?

While I've never bought a gun from Loyalist Arms I have supplied items to them, And know them to be a most honorable firm. Just my observation & opinion .
Rudyard

 

[Clark Badgett]

While I've never bought a gun from Loyalist Arms I have supplied items to them, And know them to be a most honorable firm. Just my observation & opinion .
Rudyard

They may be an honorable firm, but those India sourced muskets look like literal caricatures of what they are supposed to be. The M1795, M1840 and English 1720-60 trade gun gave me big laughs.