Brown Bess Options?

[FlinterNick]

They may be an honorable firm, but those India sourced muskets look like literal caricatures of what they are supposed to be. The M1795, M1840 and English 1720-60 trade gun gave me big laughs.

They’re not accurate copies of original guns, I’ve seen plenty. However they do serve a good purpose, for the reinactor that just wants a musket and is more concerned about the reenactment part, they’re good for that, and a movie prop..

I won’t go into too many details about how i feel about Indian arms.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Thank you sir. The only thing holding me back is finding a builder who could complete it in a reasonable time. I simply do not have the skill for it, and wouldn’t want to botch such a good kit.

I do know a club near you that would help you build it.

 

[sportster73hp]

A little off subject but are Indian made guns highly polished or chrome plated ?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

polished

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks, gang. I may have found a builder by way of ColonialRifleSmith here on the forum.

I do like the history and shorter handier nature of the 3rd model Bess.

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

Thanks, gang. I may have found a builder by way of ColonialRifleSmith here on the forum.

I do like the history and shorter handier nature of the 3rd model Bess.

I thought you did a much earlier time period.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Yes, they are pretty craptacular. Cheap is still cheap regardless of how it hurts your feelings. When Veteran Arms uses a picture as a representation it’s probably as good as it’s going to get, and damn those things are horrendous. They are little more than movie prop level garbage

Most don't consider a grand to be cheap. What is the hourly rate for a mechanic, plumber, welder???? I challenge you to find a gun builder willing to put quality parts into a block of wood for double the cost of an india gun. As far as veteran arms goes why would you picture every gun when they sell so many? There are differences for sure but that is why they guarantee their locks to work. IF you have a guaranteed lock and a safe barrel the rest is cosmetics, if as the original poster mentions their interest isn't historical then you are paying double to quadruple.

 

[Sam squanch]

I’ve examined a few Indian guns imported here from the 1970’s. They were not badly made. The double 12 I saw was just as good as a Pedersoli.

 

[PathfinderNC]

I'd order up some rifle shop parts and have smartdog make me one.

Who wouldn’t!

 

[Rudyard]

They’re not accurate copies of original guns, I’ve seen plenty. However they do serve a good purpose, for the reinactor that just wants a musket and is more concerned about the reenactment part, they’re good for that, and a movie prop..

I won’t go into too many details about how i feel about Indian arms.

Well Ive seen plenty too .A musket of my make now resides the Royal Armories Leeds they think its all right . But Yes I agree the Indian muskets can be quite poor if their not as poor as the poor buggers who actually make them in grotty workshops & Ive been there done that .Not making, just guiding the making of particular locks (One of which is IN the musket I mention ) As a reenactor I dodged up my own & many others to make them presentable .I added the same up grading such as Loyalist Arms .Do they are cheap & cheerful . Sure not up to Dave Person or me if its warrented but for a great many they have served buyers very well . .Sure I can snear at the quality as often found but .you get what you pay for . I was actually chased after to get the' got up' (Improuved )' fire risk ' mostly blunder busses or carbines .All stood Birmingham proof one day, I was collecting some they had done for me an office girl doing the paperwork shouts "Are the sporting or military ?" The bloke at the counters replies "Sporting ' 'Got the be a Sport to fire one of these !" Ile let his be the last word .
Regards Rudyard

 

[Clark Badgett]

Most don't consider a grand to be cheap. What is the hourly rate for a mechanic, plumber, welder???? I challenge you to find a gun builder willing to put quality parts into a block of wood for double the cost of an india gun. As far as veteran arms goes why would you picture every gun when they sell so many? There are differences for sure but that is why they guarantee their locks to work. IF you have a guaranteed lock and a safe barrel the rest is cosmetics, if as the original poster mentions their interest isn't historical then you are paying double to quadruple.

Most are too stupid to realize that $1000 worth of cheap garbage is exactly that. Thus we are having this conversation.

 

[Commodore Swab]

Most are too stupid to realize that $1000 worth of cheap garbage is exactly that. Thus we are having this conversation.

I respectively disagree

 

[Smokey Plainsman]

Thanks guys. I am wanting to buy the parts set for the 3rd model (India pattern) Brown Bess but it is tricky finding a builder. I want to make sure the details are all correct.

 

[Coinneach]

In defense of the derided India Muskets ,I agree often rough but' cheap & cheerful' and they will 'Work up" my own Re enactment musket I kept in the US was a composite of three dismissed guns. But it worked up to a fine reliable Musket (Vaguely' After 'some Colonels private Purchase ) but fine by me .No one picked it it stood Birmingham proof was a sparking 'fire risk' what more could I ask '? , Well nothing so I didn't .Same story with my kept in UK carbine old militia barrel dodged up ex North Star reject stock , India lock . replaced guard & pipes for wood rod ,passed muster for 7 years war stuff . Even shot it at Bisley after doing a rendezvous' in darkest Surrey, I think it was Surrey some where South .The Cobblers kid is allways the poorest shod but I was quite happy to have them. But I have an old Bess here for what Events I might do .mostly the 1840s local ' Nelson Battalion of Militia 'only brought out to offer the 'Challenge 'ceremonies when modern Troops march to affirm their right to bear arms in the City ' Flags flying , Swords drawn, B nets fixed & Bands playing . The Militia raised in haste in 1843 being still Gazetted and provided these last 30 years an interesting option to the usual Policeman on a horse .
Rudyard's take on such things

Right on Rudyard !

 

[Coinneach]

I respectively disagree

Ditto

 

[Coinneach]

OK after reading all the posts to this point I'll put my "two Bobs worth" in, the Indian made repro Brown Bess Muskets vary in workmanship (which is understandable considering the different makers) but in the main can be "tricked up" if youre on a budget.

From everything I've read, heard and seen (in 3 separate cases) Loyalist Arms & Repairs (Canada) has the reputation of being the best option for a better quality Indian made (tricked up) and they will vent and proof the Barrel, harden the Frizzen and re-temper the Lock Springs etc.

Links: http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/brownbesseastindiapattern.html

Reviews:

 

[Coinneach]

The also have a light infantry 1760 pattern in stock too in 62 caliber.

While it’s not a brown bess, it’s one of the finest handling British military arms I’ve ever seen and held.

If I had to chose, between a third model and a 1760 flight infantry I’d got for the light infantry gun, and now that I’ve announced it here, it may not be there tomorrow.

I bought a North Star Light Infantry officers Fusil years ago, its a well made very comfortable smooth bore musket that suits me fine.

 

[FlinterNick]

While I've never bought a gun from Loyalist Arms I have supplied items to them, And know them to be a most honorable firm. Just my observation & opinion .
Rudyard

The people at loyalist arms are a pleasure to deal with. I don’t buy guns from them but I’ve occasionally purchased bayonets and cutlery from them.

However, i would always advise that anyone who purchase an Indian arm should hand select one if you’re able to, its the best way to ensure you’re getting the best quality Indian arm you can buy.

 

[FlinterNick]

They may be an honorable firm, but those India sourced muskets look like literal caricatures of what they are supposed to be. The M1795, M1840 and English 1720-60 trade gun gave me big laughs.

The Indian made charleville’s and 1795’s are very far from the authentic patterns they’re intended to be.

While that’s an issue for you or myself, the novice buyer that has very little knowledge of the correct dimensions and patterns may not be.

Teak stocks alone are enough for me to say, no never ever.

 

[FlinterNick]

OK after reading all the posts to this point I'll put my "two Bobs worth" in, the Indian made repro Brown Bess Muskets vary in workmanship (which is understandable considering the different makers) but in the main can be "tricked up" if youre on a budget.

From everything I've read, heard and seen (in 3 separate cases) Loyalist Arms & Repairs (Canada) has the reputation of being the best option for a better quality Indian made (tricked up) and they will vent and proof the Barrel, harden the Frizzen and re-temper the Lock Springs etc.

Links: http://www.loyalistarms.freeservers.com/brownbesseastindiapattern.html

Reviews:

Something you ought to consider is buying a used reproduction brown bess. Fixing up an older used repro is a great project ! They can be made into excellent muskets when reworked, updated and cleaned.

There are various broker sties that have Pedersoli’s and mirokus, even some higher quality Indian made guns from the 1970’s.

FYI Indian made guns from the 1970’s were made by actual firearms dealers from India, these were higher quality arms, had match grade barrels. When the Indian gun laws changed, these shops either closed or moved. These guns were stocked in either Turkish or african walnut, well made and were sold by Henry Krank and sandy mcnabe in england and a few companies in West Germany at the time. I think Stoeger arms from Belgium dealt with them too.

You dont’ have to spend thousands on your first brown bess or dive into a rifle shoppe kit.

While having a rifle shoppe kit is a great idea, I’m a firm believer in doing it yourself. You’’ll always love your handmade musket, even the mistakes, its your work of art.


Lastly, i would hesitate very much on sending a rifle shoppe kit to someone to build you’ve met on this forum. There are a lot of hacks out there, and you want to chose the right builder.

When choosing a builder make the following decisions.

1. Portfolio, review their work and references.
2. Do they have experience with this particular arm? If not, that’s an issue, something like a sling swivel in the wrong location can mess up a kit badly.
3. Ask the rifle shoppe for references on builders, they’ll name a few.
4. Lead and wait times, if someone says i can build it in 30 or 60 days, thats’ too good to be true, that means they have no works in process, which means they don’t build many kits.