Brown Bess Patch, Ball and Lub Question

[Rockrivr1]

I just received my Brown Bess that I ordered and I have a few questions that I'm hoping you guys can help me with. I mik'd out the bbl and its at .745. So I went to Track of the Wolf and they have .715 and .735 balls. I noticed though that they do not have pre-cut patches in the .70 and up range. I guess I'll have to buy the pillow ticking strips and cut/lube them myself. Unless you guys know of a place that sells pre-cut patches of that size. I'm fairly certain the .60 to .69 patches will be to small.

My question is if I go with the .715 balls and .20 patches I'll be up at .735. That leaves .10 space left. Is that good or is that to much room for accuracy reasons?

If I go with the .735 ball, I'd need to go with a .10 patch and I think that would be to thin for the amount of powder used. I would think the patch would burn and lose it's effectiveness.

I could go with a .69 ball and the .20 pre cut patches, but I'd only be at .719. This would leave .26 of space, which is probably to much.

Also, If I go with the .20 pillow ticking that I have to cut what would you recommend I lub them with?

Thanks guys for the help!

 

[paulvallandigham]

YOu are wrong in your calculations of patch thickness in the bore. The patch is On TWO sides of the bore, or: .715 + .020 + .020 = .745. If you can find any patching ( denim comes to mind) that is .024" or thicker, you can use that, to see if you won't get even better groups. With a ball that size, it expands easily to press the cloth patch against the bore, and seal off gases. You can also use a 12 gauge OP wad to help seal gases and protect your patches from gas cutting.

In a smoothbore, the only two functions the patching serves is to(1) hold the ball in the barrel, so it doesn't roll out, and(2) to lube the barrel as the ball is fired out of the barrel to soften the residue from the burning powder behind it. Centering the ball is done by the patch regardless of the thickness of the patching. You can also try putting an OS card on top of the PRB to see if you don't get more consistent velocities, as well as to insure that the PRB does not move in the barrel during handling. If you don't want to buy two sets or kind of wads, you can use a couple of OS cards in place of the OP wads behind the ball to seal the gases. Just punch a hole in the OS cards with an awl to let air escape through the cards, to separate the cards when they leave the muzzle, so they don't " follow " the shot( RB).

 

[Britsmoothy]

I use my own lube, it consists of olive oil and bees wax melted and mixed together at a ratio that allows it to set but melts at body temp. It's practically odour less and kind to the skin.
Rubbed on the gun and down the bore/s it stops ant rust issues if you are not ready to do a full clean or going out the next day etc.
Britsmoothy.

 

[J.D.]

Paul is right about doubling the patch when loading. That combination will measure .755 once the patch is wrapped around the ball.

That is the same combination shot in my bess. IT loads with only thumb pressure and shoots very well at all ranges.

 

[paulvallandigham]

J.D. Thank you for catching that typo for me. I don't know how I missed it, but I did. It is .755", and the fabric, when wetted, does compress some to give a good tight fit. The coarser the threading, the more it can be compressed, so he can still try thicker patching material to see what gives him the best accuracy. :hatsoff:

 

[Croppy Boy]

Just one small point, if you are buying cards or wads for your Bess, you should get 11 gauge. 12 gauge would be a shade too small.

 

[Rockrivr1]

Thanks for the advise. Question though. If my bore is .745, wouldn't this patch ball combo of .755 be to big. Figure I may be able to squeeze it in the first shot, but if the bbl gets a little fouled I may not be able to get the ball down the bbl. Am I correct in this assumption? If so, wouldn't the .015 patch be a better choice?

Paul is right about doubling the patch when loading. That combination will measure .755 once the patch is wrapped around the ball.

That is the same combination shot in my bess. IT loads with only thumb pressure and shoots very well at all ranges.

 

[paulvallandigham]

That is why you clean the barrel between shots, particular smoothbore! Because they have no grooves into which to deposit the crud, you have to keep them clean if you want to shoot PRB in them accurately.

The Good news is that with a tight gas seal, the powder burns quite efficiently, leaving behind black goo, instead of chunks of carbon to clean out, or become serious ball stopping crud. Cleaning out the powder residue is very easy to do with a cleaning patch or two. The large diameter balls weight a LOT, and that offers a lot of resistence to movement, allowing the chamber pressures to rise enough to permit more complete burning of the powder.

THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS to shooting Black powder firearms. Trust us. If there were, we would already know them, and would gladly share them with you. Shooting Black Powder guns is a Deliberative Sport, requiring paying attention to loading the gun, for both safety, and for efficient, accurate loads, as well as paying attention to cleaning. Get the idea of " Speed loading " a Black Powder firearm out of you head.

If you want to shoot fast, get a semi-automatice pistol, rifle or shotgun and have a Blast! If, on the other hand, you enjoy seeing just how consistent, and how small a group you can shoot with a very old style ignition, then shoot Smoothies shooting PRB, over Black Powder.

I think every new shooter should perhaps be required to FIRST shoot Matchlocks. Then Wheellocks, and only then Flintlocks. Perhaps then they will appreciate what they have avaliable to them these days. :hmm: :hatsoff:

 

[tg]

The compression factor needs to be figured in when calculating patch thickness and ball size combos for "fit"

 

[Mike Brooks]

That is why you clean the barrel between shots, particular smoothbore! Because they have no grooves into which to deposit the crud, you have to keep them clean if you want to shoot PRB in them accurately.

:yakyak: Never had a smooth bore that I had to clean between shots. All of mine could shoot all day with out a wipe, and compete with the rifles. :blah:
A tight patch/ball combo is what you need, I like a smaller ball and a thicker patch as apposed to a large ball and thin patch. Any load you don't need a short starter to load is to loose a patch ball combo. Use a good lube, something like that yellow gunk you can buy or Murphy's cut with 10% rubbing alcohol.

 

[Britsmoothy]

Mr Brooks, What please is that yellow gunk and Murphys?
Thanks, Britsmoothy.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Mr Brooks, What please is that yellow gunk and Murphys?
Thanks, Britsmoothy.

Wonder lube is the yellow gunk. Murphy's is the stuff that comes in the spray bottle for household cleaning. It's just a soap, but it's super slippery.

 

[gjkershul]

I have a Bess with a .749 muzzle. I have had very good results shooting a paper wrapped .735 ball.
I make cartridges, using computer print out paper that mikes at .035. Two wraps around the cartridge former gives me a round that when it is loaded fits the bore very well. The cartridge with ball inside is dipped in my minie lube set aside to dry and then loaded with powder.
I use a sort of "enfield" loading practice. The cartridge is torn, the powder poured down the barrel, the ball is then seated in the muzzle to the depth of the ball, the excess paper is torn away and the ball and resulting paper patch rammed home.
For a speed shoot, I have used .715 balls or even .690 balls if the course of fire may go to 40
rounds.

 

[slowpokebr549]

I have best luck in my 12 bore with a smaller ball, thicker patch combo.

 

[robertdale]

some of the answers are right on. the answer that included the referance to "speed shoots" is worrysome to me. have heard of a few misfires and late ignions. I just use a bronze brush between shots and have found it does a very good job and keeps the fouling at a constant level.

 

[Rockrivr1]

This is my first smoothbore so I'm just looking for advise on ball patch combos. I'm still very new to BP shooting so I've been reading as much as possible, but sometimes the more advanced methods are a little past my newbie knowledge. I've shot modern weapons for years and while I do enjoy them, I'm looking to learn this type of shooting correctly. Definitely not looking for short cuts. Not to worried about speed as of yet. I'll be happy if I can get all shots on paper for my first time out.

I'm going to get a few combinations of balls and patches to try. First I'm going to get .715 balls with .020 and .015 patches. These will come dry and from reading I may just try Windex or Ballistol as a patch lube.

I'm also going to get some .69 balls with some pillow ticking that is .020 or larger. I'm also considering getting some .735 balls with .010 and .015 patches.

Figure I can have some fun trying to figure out what will work best.

Thanks everyone for the advise

 

[paulvallandigham]

Best wishes trying out all those different balls and patch combinations. Just take your time, shoot from a solid rest, starting at 25 yards first to get your shots on paper, and then moving back to 35 or 50 yards to determine accuracy. With a smoothbore, don't expect accuracy at longer ranges, until you become very skilled at shooting your gun. Group size at 70 to 100 yards is determined more by the shooter's skill as a shooter, than the inherent accuracy of the gun and load.

Remember you have no rear sight, unless you add something, and that front sight is a bayonet lug. There are things that can be done to improve the sights on your gun without changing its outward appearance ( Such as filing the bayonet lug down some to provide a small post in the center, or, doing the opposite, filing or cutting a notch in the center of the lug to give a narrow sighting reference). Get on the paper at 25 yds, and then move your targets back to 35 or 50 yards to begin finding out group sizes.