Brown stuff after cleaning

[Walks with fire]

Fisher King,

The main thing that is causing the brown gunk is the use of hot water to clean. Use only warm water and dry patch as soon as it's clean and you won't have the brown gunk.

 

I was getting the same darned thing, -- but only with my ML rifles and it was making me nuts. I finally figured it out that the brown stuff was nothing more than shavings from the wood ramrod.

 

[DanChamberlain]

Fisher;

I'm reading your cleaning regimen: "You spend 45 minutes scrubing changing the hot soapy water about 5-6 times using a bore brush and alternating with a jag and cleaning patch pump action to heat the barel, with a last rise withboiling water, dry patch 2 or 3 . I then leave it by the wood stove for a half hour to make sure all water is evaprated. I then use Balistiol to keep rust out."

First of all, you're spending about 40 more minutes scrubbing than you have to. It looks like your cleaning process is bordering on obsessive. It's just not that necessary!

Black powder residue has no magical powers to resist your efforts to clean it. It is a simple matter to remove it and if you are looking for absolutely spotless patches in the end, you are worrying needlessly. The finest cast iron pots and pans will still show dull gray staining on a wiping cloth even when meticulously cleaned. Ignore it.

If you are using wonderlube or a variant of the same, your patches will show a brownish residue that is oily. That's not rust...it's protection!

Others may do it differently, but here's what I do with my rifles and smoothbores.

I pour cool or tepid water in my barrel to half full after plugging the nipple or touch hole with a toothpick. I plug the barrel and tilt it back and forth several times to slosh it around and pour it out. If it is particularly dirty, I'll do it again. Then, I'll pour about 2 inches in and start brushing the bore. Then I'll rinse, again with cool or tepid water. Notice, I haven't used any soap? Finally, I'll pour a 3/4 barrel full of fresh, extremely hot water and let it set and the barrel heat up really good. I'll put a patch on a jag and slip it in the barrel and remove the nipple/vent plug and push that water out under a good force to really clear the nipple/vent holes.

So far, I've spent about 10 minutes in the cleaning chore.

You have a choice. I don't remove my vent. I will remove the nipple on a perc gun. I send half a dozen dry patches down the bore. If I'm really lazy, I may take a blow dryer and blow a bunch of hot air down the bore to help keep it hot and force some hot dry air out the nipple channel, but that's only if I'm not missing a good show. I'll follow up with a water displacement, like alcohol or WD-40 and finish by using a metal protectant or some of the yellow/smelly lube.

Nothing could be simpler. I have guns that are 10 years old and the breech areas are as shiny as the day I bought them based on lights I've shined down bore. Not a hint of rust. I took a drum off one that hadn't been removed in a decade and there wasn't a hint of corosion in the breech area.

I don't spend more than 15 minutes on a gun during the cleaning cycle.

If I'm in the field and want to really make sure my breech area is dry after cleaning, I have a small brass patch jag that will fit into the breech area nicely and I heat it up in my camp fire to glowing red! I drop it down the bore and let it set in that wet powder chamber and do its work. I may do it twice if I haven't finished my cup'o sour mash. After that, I dry patch, oil and put'er away.

If you try to come out with spotless patches, you will wear yourself out! Trust in the fact that your gun steel will not let you down unless you abuse it. A little discoloration on a patch is normal.

Dan

 

[braintan]

I have to wonder how rifles were cleaned 200 yrs ago. They didn't have ballistol or wd40 but they lasted for decades and longer. Does anyone here have knowlege of how it was done back then?
I don't have much experience with bp but I'm gettin into it.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Paul: you have some very good info on this subject of rust, but the air around a wood stove is usually very dry air unless there is a large open pot of steaming or boiling water on it. when it's humid outside check the wood surfaces near a hot wood stove, they will be dry.
some barrel steels (better grades actually) have slight amounts of nickel, chrome, or moleybdenum in them which inhibit 'flash rusting' - probably that is what is happening here with the long period of drying time by the stove. If cleaning involves using hot or boiling water this heats the barrel up to the point that any moisture will cause flash rust quickly and as soon as the barrel is clean it should be dry patched then lubed to keep this to a minimum.
when at home I always dry patch the barrel at first to remove as much BP residue as possible then wet patch couple times before I soak the barrel ( I have been using boiling windsheild washer fluid - a tip I found here- as soaking/wet patch solvent) that really loosens the residue and then bore mop with it until clean then dry patch until no stained patches, lube the barrel and set by the stove until hot to the touch, dry patch again and relube. a couple days later I run a lubed patch in-out a few times. Usually I get lightly stained patches but I don't worry about it. I feel it is important to get as much of the 'crud ring' out using dry patches before soaking the barrel to kill the salt residue.
If I'm at deer camp or camping out of my 4-wheeler I carry windsheild washer fluid in a squeeze tube. If trekking I carry Go-Jo white to mop the barrel with after boiling water soak as I use it for patch lube and wipe down. no rust(pitting) after several days in the woods

 

[paulvallandigham]

Blizzard: You are confusing humidity with relative humidity. Actual humidity( wet or damp surfaces around that hot stove) will be less near the stove. But warm air carries more moisture, so the relative humidity of the air near a stove, ( and above it ) will be much greater than the colder air on the porch. I don't put guns over a mantle of a fireplace, and I don't leave guns leaning against the wall near a wood stove either. I have gotten rust on the guns doing that, and learned my lesson. Your experience may be different. Gun barrels don't need to be warm or hot, to stay dry. They simply need to be left dry. Cool and dry works better, yet.

 

[Heidi 1672]

You might want to give this a try, After cleaning your barrel with hot soapy water or solvent or whatever you use. Before putting any oil or lube in the barrel, take a small metal funnel and put it in the end of your barrel and put a hair dryer to it for a minute or so. It doesn't have to be hot air cool will also work. after this oil it up with whatever you prefer and you are good to go. I heard about this a few years back and have not had flash rust since. A boot dryer and funnel will work fine also.

 

[Heidi 1672]

You might want to try this, After scrubbing your bore with soapy water or solvent or whatever you prefer, Run some patches to dry it and then take a small metal funnel and put it in your barrel and put the hairdryer to it for a minute or so. it doesn;t have to be hot,cool will also work. After this you can lube it as usual and you are good to go.I heard of this a few years ago and have not had the flash rust problem since then. A bootdryer also works fine. I made a nice little end piece to clamp right onto the hairdryer. Give it a try!

 

[RICKYD]

I run just plain water through my coffee maker first, its easy to pour but better wrap the barrel with a towel where your holding it, it does get hot.
My question is what about putting a little vinegar in the water? Would it cause any problems?

 

[paulvallandigham]

Vinegar is an acid. It will eat the barrel, and increase rust. You don't need soap, or acid, or anything but fresh water to clean out black powder residue.

Now, if you are using those substitutes, or shooting conicals with no cloth patch or paper patching, or some of those plastic shoes that contain jacketed pistol bullets, you will need a good solvent, either lead only, or for lead and plastics, to clean the barrel. But Water will dissolve( dilute) black powder, and most of the salts found in the substitutes. Water won't touch lead, or plastic. That is where a bore brush, and good solvent( I use Shooter's Choice on my modern shotguns to remove the plastic residue left behind from the shotcups ) and patches are needed to clean down to the barrel metal. If you don't clean to the bare metal, moisture will surely get under the plastic, or lead, and corrode the barrel. YOu also risk the fact that powder residue will be under that plastic or lead, and that will accelerate the corrosion process.

Now, just to anticipate some small bore shooter's objections, .22 rimfire rifle cartridges shoot bullets that are OUSIDE LUBRICATED, meaning that there is a lubricant sprayed on and dried as part of the coating of the bullet. After about 200 shots, the target barrels of their rifles will have a very thin( measured in 10,000Th of an inch) coat of lead and lube mixed in the grooves of the barrel. The thin layer actually reduces the diameter of the bore, and makes the gun shoot smaller groups. The only cleaning small bore rifle shooters do is to run a clean BARE patch down the barrel after the shooting ie over to remove and powder debris that may be in the barrel. They do not clean the barrel down to bare metal.

They also are not shooting black pwoder, or the subs. They are shooting specially lubricated bullets, while ML shooters are not. Apples and Oranges. What they can do with their rifles is wholely different than what you have to do with a ML rifle to keep it clean, and maintain accuracy.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

we do agree on the fact that water is needed to remove the salt residue from barrel, I haven't tryed the new BP 'solvents' and I haven't read any reports on 'em. water cleaning is too simple to do to switch from. I have found that patching the bore several times after shooting is done will remove a lot of fouling that would be have to be removed by the 'washing' procedure. it seems to speed the process up some, at least in my experience, UR milage may vary. in the woods camping afoot I use my favorite patch lube white G0-J0 as a cleaner with a bore mop I made out of felt wads with a hole in the center, a stack of them screwed on the end of the rod does a good job. firmer than a regular mop, but that works good also. :thumbsup:

 

[d.thomson]

Wow a lot of good info here i'l have to try some difrent things and see what works for me . Thanks for all the responces, everyone seems to have a point. :hatsoff: :thumbsup: Fisher King.

 

[Zonie]

Just for the record, I got a bottle of TC #13 Bore Cleaner with one of the used muzzleloader's I bought so I tried it out on several of my rifles and pistols.

I got flash rusting in the bores of all of them, and it occured in the time it took me to replace my wet patched jag with a dry wiping patch.

I was not positively impressed.

zonie

 

[Blizzard of '93]

Care to enlighten us tenderfeet with UR cleaning regimen both at home and camping?

 

[Zonie]

My regimen??
I hate to bore you folks with this, but as they say, "You Asked For It".

Well, I am a "barrel remover" person, so I remove the barrel. This includes the barrels on my pinned fullstock rifles (which have no hooked breech).
If the gun is a percussion style, I remove the nipple from the breech or drum.
I also remove the lock from the stock and wipe it off with a wet rag. I dry it with paper towels, reoil it and set it aside.

With the barrel removed, I get my old bucket and fill it with luke warm water.

Selecting a brass jag of the proper size, I get about 15 about cleaning patches out, wet one and run it down the bore with the jag mounted on my stainless steel range rod.
I've found that the ready made cleaning patches for a .45 work fine in all of my guns including my .58's. The only time they don't work is when I'm cleaning my .36 or .40 and with these guns, I cut the patches down a bit with some shears.

Placing the breech of the barrel into the bucket, I then withdraw the patch/jag which floods the flame channel and bore with water.

Getting another clean patch, I moisten it in the bucket and pour on a little Murphys Oil Soap.
Then with the barrel removed from the bucket, I run the Oil Soap up and down the bore about 5 times.

Replacing the soap patch with a clean wet patch, I insert the breech of the barrel back into the bucket and run the patch up and down the full length of the bore using a bit of power in my strokes. This pumps the clean water into and out of the bore thru the flame channel or the vent hole. (About the second up stroke ends up with water pouring out of the muzzle.

After several patches and several minutes of pumping I aim the vent hole across the yard and blast the remaining water at the neighbors cat.

This is followed by a number of dry patches run down and up the bore to dry it.
When it is dry, I place the breech of the barrel over the flame on my kitchen stove to heat it a little hotter than boiling. This dry's the breech and drum/vent threads.

I then spray some BC Sheath down the bore followed by a clean patch which is run up and down the bore .
Following this, I wipe all of the exterior surfaces with Sheath.

The nipple has been soaking in a cup of water during this process so it is ready to be wiped clean with a dry paper towel. I always run a wire thru the hole to make sure it is open.

Reassembling the gun, I'm done.

As I don't hunt with my rifles anymore, I don't worry about cleaning them while I'm camping.

zonie

 

[Blizzard of '93]

I like that 'cat aiming' technique! :applause:

 

[d.thomson]

I cleaned my gun this weakend useing teppid water wd40 gasline anti freeze(methalhydrate99%)and than the balistoil no more brown stuff took about 15 minutes. thanks everyone for their feeback :hatsoff: :thumbsup: Fisher King.P.S. I might try the murrpies oil soap thing instead of dish detergent, just a thought.

 

[Tim Clark]

My two cents: The reason for using Ballistol with water is because it is NOT a petroleum product (I am NOT against petrol products, just pointing out that it mixes with water whilst petrol will not), and readily mixes with water, getting in wherever water will go... Then, the residual water that you cannot wipe out, i.e. the tiny amounts in the pores in the metal, evaporates, leaving the metal protected by the Ballistol coating left behind.

Ballistol is great stuff, sure, but it too has its limitations and should be used accordingly. Again, I am not against anything else at all. I just honestly cannot think of any other product I've ever used that simplified the process as well as it does.