Buck & Ball Loads

[nightwolf1974]

In a .65 to .75 caliber musket, what should I use if I want to shoot a buckshot type load?

 

[Rebel]

Uhhh, Buckshot type shot. :grin: I used a .600 rd ball with 4 #4 buck on top for buck and ball load in my .62 cal/.20 ga.

 

[md2020]

you can use 00 or 000 in the 75-- and #1 in the 65 to 69-- try about 10 to 12 pellets..I use a .125 overpowder, a 1/2 fiber wad --then the pellets with some corn meal followed by an overshot card..65-80 grns powder--if lead streaks in your barrel bother you, make paper tube cartridges..you will be surprised at the killing power of #000 buck (36 cal)

 

[shootemup]

Can I ask how these loads perform? I've always been intrigued by the notion of a buck-n-ball load but anytime it comes up there's always that admonishment -
:nono: "The ball on its own is enough, if you hit with that you don't need the buckshot. If you miss with the ball and hit with the buckshot you'll just wound the deer..." :yakyak:

I guess there's a suggestion that the two won't go to the same place. What have you guys seen?

Think it might be fun myself... :wink:

Spot

 

[jbg]

I've tried buck and ball loads in my .69 Springfiled and my .62 Tulle ( that I stupidly sold).
3 or 6 00 buckshot over a .65 or.60 roundball, felt wads between the roundball and powder, another felt wad, the buckshot sometimes wrapped in paper, sometimes not, and a felt wad over that.
At anything more than 10 paces the dispersal was such that I was lucky to get 1 buckshot on paper. Often all I got was the round ball hitting the target. On a huge piece of cardboard to check patterns, there was no pattern.
I tried 9 buckshot in the Tulle once. Same results. 3 buckshot on a 4ft.x 6ft.piece of cardboard at 10 paces.
I guess it I was shooting at a line of massed infantry less than 50 yards away, or a Mohawk intent on lifting my hair it might make a difference, but for hunting whitetails, there is no way I would take the chance on losing a wounded deer.
But what the heck, try it.

 

[rice1817]

Some years ago there was an article in Muzzleloader or Muzzleblasts were they experimented with buck and ball loads. Although the traditional buck and ball cartridge had the pellets in front of the ball, the writer got a tighter pattern with the pellets behind the ball. He theorized that with the ball behind the pellets, the ball was blowing through the center of the pellet cluster and forcing the pelles to the side. With the pellets behind the ball, each was free to go about its trajectory without interference.

I suppose for combat you would want the wider dispersion, for hunting the tighter grouping, but I would not want to use buck and ball for hunting.

 

[Juice Jaws]

Check your game laws. Most states will not let you use a buck and ball load for hunting.

 

[Many Klatch]

Buck and ball is a fun load. I usually just drop 4 or 5 or 6 - 00 Buckshot on top of a round ball in either my .60 or .715 smoothbores. They do buck into your shoulder a little harder.

With my .60 a straight load of 9 - 00 buckshot will stay in a paper plate at 25 yards. This is loaded with an overpowder wad, a cushion wad, the buckshot and then an overshot wad. With a round ball and 4 buck shot, I expect to see one or two of the buckshot and the roundball in the paper plate. I have never tried it at 50 yards.

I don't do anything special in loading a buck and ball load. Put the patched round ball down, drop in some buckshot and then stuff a wad on top so the won't roll out the end of the barrel.

My .60 smoothbore has an extra heavy barrel and the barrel is 48" long so that may be why I get such good results.

Many Klatch

 

[tg]

"I guess there's a suggestion that the two won't go to the same place. What have you guys seen?"

it is a close range load, I worked up a load in my .62 with a .600 ball and 6 .30 shot on top(this was a tighter pattern than with the ball on top) it is good to 15yds+ with the ball in the center and the shot spread oput around it in about a 12" circle, I only figured on useing it when setting next to a trail into heavy cover and wanted as much lead into an animal as possible so it might not go into the thick stuff, Idealy 10 yds would be a good range for this load.

 

[nightwolf1974]

How about a good buckshot load in a .65 caliber?

 

[tg]

I have not played with straight buckshot loads, you will probably have to do some testing, if it is to be a hunting load check regs for min.size shot required, most like to use a shot size that layers in the bore,figure the weight of the shot to equal a ball or connical for the bore size, also consider the strength of the gun at the breech when pushing a lot of lead, in an open bore one may need a cup to prevent a wide pattern, I am certain others with first hand expereience will chime in here.

 

[jbg]

6-9 oo buckshot with 70 grains of ffg would be a good start. Be prepared to get your shoulder thumped!

 

[4sd4d]

It was always my understanding that the buck and ball load was primarily for the military, which is just trying to hurt people, rather than for effectively killing an animal.

 

[tg]

"It was always my understanding that the buck and ball load was primarily for the military, which is just trying to hurt people, rather than for effectively killing an animal."

Absolutely. I just was playing with an option to put as much lead into a deer at very close range in hopes of the animal not going far, it is a very limited load for hunting, but my testing indicates it could be very effective under certain situations. I also tried this load with the shot loosley tied in a bag and got a large ragged hole abot two inches from the ball at 15-20 yds. I am going to play around with the shot only but more of them tied in such bags on top an over powder card.to see what the range limit/accuracy of this leathal little package is.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

It was always my understanding that the buck and ball load was primarily for the military, which is just trying to hurt people, rather than for effectively killing an animal.

I have to agree. In military use, the buck and ball load was used to kill and cripple. The ball was intended to kill and the buck shot was used in the hope that it would wound others and put them out of combat or at least make them less effective. I don't see it as an effective hunting load at all, the more lead you put into an animal after killing it (the .65 to .75 ball will do that just fine by itself) the more meat you damage and can't make use of for food. If you miss with the large ball, the buck shot will not stop the deer, it will just make it suffer. No offense intended, but it seems to me that this approach shows disrespect for the game and that's not what hunting is all about, am I right?

 

[tg]

" No offense intended, but it seems to me that this approach shows disrespect for the game and that's not what hunting is all about, am I right?"

It is very unlikely to miss with the ball at 10 yds the additional shot is icing on the cake and will damage little meat, I have found that even large balls do not damage meat like a center fire bullit, it is no different than useing buck shot to hunt deer which is all small shot but probably good to a longer range,from a tight choke, from the patterning I have done I have no qualms about useing this up close but that is the only condition I would consider its use.I would think it a far better choice than taking 100 yd shots with a .45 or .50 as far as risk of loosing the animal.The buck and ball up close is not about extra killing power but more stoping power, to put the animal down faster to prevent a track thru thick blackberry patches.I have not used it but keep the fixings on hand should the conditions be right for its use.One would definately have to hold hard on the limit of the range load and maybe let some deer walk but that can happen with any load.

 

[Elnathan]

According to Shooting: Marsh and Moor, poachers in the Highlands used to use a buck and ball load for hunting. Not suggesting it is necessarily a good idea, but it seems to have been done.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

" No offense intended, but it seems to me that this approach shows disrespect for the game and that's not what hunting is all about, am I right?"

It is very unlikely to miss with the ball at 10 yds the additional shot is icing on the cake and will damage little meat, I have found that even large balls do not damage meat like a center fire bullit, it is no different than useing buck shot to hunt deer which is all small shot but probably good to a longer range,from a tight choke, from the patterning I have done I have no qualms about useing this up close but that is the only condition I would consider its use.I would think it a far better choice than taking 100 yd shots with a .45 or .50 as far as risk of loosing the animal.The buck and ball up close is not about extra killing power but more stoping power, to put the animal down faster to prevent a track thru thick blackberry patches.I have not used it but keep the fixings on hand should the conditions be right for its use.One would definately have to hold hard on the limit of the range load and maybe let some deer walk but that can happen with any load.

I understand your thinking now, but I am not sure I agree. It seems to me that if you get a shot at that range, the single ball will certainly put the game down and the buckshot would not be necessary. We'll agree to disagree? All my respect to you.

 

[paulvallandigham]

If you miss a deer at 10 yards with a .75 caliber round ball, but hit it with a couple of .24 caliber balls, that weigh about 20 grains, max. I don't see anyhthing happening other than a badly wounded animal that will escape and suffer. That is the opposite of what you say you are trying to do. I have shot deer at as little as 20 yards with a .75 caliber bullet, and they dropped in their tracks. I see no need to use buck and ball on any game, for any legitimate purpose.

I politely disagree with Tg about this matter. And I am happy that most states outlaw the use of any buckshot for shooting deer. They deserve a better death than that. Leave the buckshot loads for shooting coyote, or fox, raiding the chicken coop, or harassing your sheep or family pets. And, have them on hand to deal with the two-legged varmints how are foolish enough to invade your home. None of them deserve any respect at all.

 

[Capt. Jas.]

I would probably prefer an all buckshot load for deer hunting. Our area has been using buckshot for 61 years.