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Buffalo Bullets

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rancher

40 Cal.
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I had some 425 grain .54 Buffalo Bullets given to me. They are hollow point and hollow base. I've never shot conicals before and am wondering if I need to use a wad under them or not?? Thanks in advance!

Oh, and how much powder should I start with?
 
They do not require a wad underneath. I'd start with 70 grains of powder and work up. You probably don't want to go more than 80-90 grains. They are heavy bullets and the thump will be hard at both ends of the rifle so your shoulder will thank you for using lighter loads.

HD
 
I know a guy whos's son gave him a full box of them, he found that box and all they made an excellant paper weight :hmm: ..........My Bad!
 
Try them with and without the wads. (They come with plenty of lube already). See what your gun likes.

I use the 385 gr 50 cal with a wonder wad and 80 gr FFg, a tackdriver.

You can probably go up to 90-100gr with the 54. I shoot the 425 hornadays that are similar in my 54 and settled on 90 gr with a wad. Both guns have 1-28 GM barrels.

Recoil starts to get real heavy with anything above the loads I mentioned.
 
tg said:
I know a guy whos's son gave him a full box of them, he found that box and all they made an excellant paper weight :hmm: ..........My Bad!

:nono: Using them as a paper weight would be a waste of good lead.
Melt them down and cast them into roundballs. :thumbsup:

Shame on me for saying that! :nono:

:haha:

HD
 
My only concern would be the twist rate of your rifle. If it's 1:48 or faster they should shoot fine, but I don't think you'll be happy with accuracy out of a slow twist barrel. My 54 GPR (1:60 as I recall) would only settle down and group them at 50 yards if I went to 100 grain charges of 3f. And those were 3-4" groups. The same loads wouldn't stay on a 15" target paper at 100 yards however.

A friend has the 54 cal GPH barrel with a 1:32 twist if I recall correctly. He can come pretty close to keeping his shots touching at 50 and they only up to 3 inches or so at 100 yards.

As for round ball snobbery, laugh it off. Dogma is as dogma does.
 
BrownBear said:
As for round ball snobbery, laugh it off. Dogma is as dogma does.

Snobbery?

I'm not a snob. I shoot conicals.

You hurt my feelings. :(

:haha:

I agree with your concern over twist rate. Hopefully he has 1:48 or faster. I haven't had much luck getting conicals to shoot in 1:48.

:thumbsup:

HD
 
The bullets have a hollow base for a reason. Putting a wad or anything under them defeats the purpose of the hollow base. Set the bullets down firmly on your powder. The idea is that the powder gas pressure causes the hollow skirt to flare into the rifling, sealing it from gas blowby. Using a wad or anything else under the bullet just makes a flat base bullet out of an expensive hollowbase.

Question. Using a micrometer, measure the length of the bullet. For a 60" twist, the formula allows for a 0.6" length bullet to still shoot accurately. If you have a 48" twist, then you can go a bit more.

I use 100 gr of Pyrodex, or 90 gr of FFg under my 390 gr bullets. But, you need to work up a load that gives you the best accuracy for your rifle. 425's will give you some recoil, but it is completely manageable.
 
I found after meny a shot that I tightened up my grps considerably useing the Hornady hollow base connicals by filling the hollow base with bore butter (just flush) and useing a op wad. HUGE much better.
 
I see NO reason to shoot conicals, much less those of these heavy weights on a steady basis out of any MLer rifle. If you are hunting buffalo, or Elk, or Bear, or Wild Boar, they might be needed, and are worth the cost. The recoil IS substantial- but different than shooting Smokeless powder loads in large caliber guns. How it will feel to you depends on you, how you hold and mount a rifle, and the design of the stock.

Wattsy is right. Fill the hollow base with bore butter, and then use a good OP wad between the powder and bullet. It will give you much better accuracy, and it does shrink group size at the longer ranges measurably.

Forget the notion that you are going to reload these "bullets" faster than it takes to load a PRB. DO fill the bases at home, and carry the bullets in a separate case, or container, or in a modern " speedloader". This is to protect the base of the bullet, from dust and lint, and save you from having to carry the grease, and tools to use to fill those hollow bases in the field. ML hunting is a basic, One shot per game animal deal, for the most part, no matter how we try to change that fact. Animals are wise enough to not hang around to get shot at twice if the first shot misses.

I would not recommend using conicals that cost this much for a target, or " plinking " load to any shooter. If these were given to you, use them wisely. A load of 70 grains of FFg powder will deliver enough velocity and energy to any game within the range of a BP rifle using iron sights to kill effectively. Shooting a 400 grain slug over 70 grains of powder will get your attention, even in a .54 caliber gun.

Go ahead a try a couple of these hot loads recommended here. See what they feel like and make your own judgment as to whether you aren't being the victim of the same kind of guys who hand you a 10 gauge shotgun when you are 12 years old, tell you " just hold it like your .22 rifle ", and have you pull the trigger. You may not land on your Butt, but you will know that the gun went off! And your shoulder will remind you of that fact for several days that follow. I am not suggesting that these recommended loads are dangerous, or don't provide better groups in some guns. I am saying that they are not necessary to kill game, and if you follow Wattsy's advice, you get better velocity, more complete burn of the powder, and a better " seal " between the bullet and your rifle's bore than using these conicals " As is ".

In some cases, I believe that some of the folks shooting the heavier powder charges are having to do so because so much gas is getting past the bullet and being lost. The Use of OP wads greatly improves the gas seal of any rifle, and reduces the need to substitute the use of more powder to achieve the same velocity. :hatsoff: :thumbsup:
 
I beg to differ on the effect wads.

Open sights, 5 shots, 50 yds:

50cal50yds.jpg
 
No question about it...every Hornady .45 and .50cal Great Plains HP conical hunting loads I've ever shot did better with an Oxyoke prelubed wonderwad over the powder.

The slight concave design on the bottom of a Hornady or Buffalo bullet do not really perform like the concave "thin skirt" of a minni-ball from the Civil War era...IMO the side walls on the Hornady and Buffalos are too thick to expand like the minnie-ball's thin skirt did.
 
I notice that no one has mentioned the added chamber pressures of using heavy conical bullets! Heavy conical bullets are well known for their extreme additional chamber pressure. I think to many times, some are trying to re-invent the wheel or thinking that Dirty Harry probably would of used them, if he were back in the 19th Century or before!

High chamber pressure is a major factor in shooting this type of lead vs. PRB. ..... chamber pressures increase alot more in conicals and really should be taken under very serious consideration in the breeching and barrel thickness in the gun.

Yep!....I'm a PRB shooter because as a hunting load in my .54 Flinter (Hawken style 1 1/8" barrel). I haven't seen any North American game, that a PRB wouldn't put down with a WELL PLACED shot at a realistic and practical range!

JMHO
Rick
 
Use .50 cal.,410 gr. "Buffalo Bullets" w/ 100 grs. 2f in my 1:48 TC bbl and they're super accurate and have taken a few elk w/ them. Have never used wads....Fred
 
Horner75 is right about the higher breech pressures so you folks who are shooting heavy conicals in a Percussion gun need to remember that the higher pressures can wear (or burn) out a nipple pretty fast.

If you start getting shots where the hammer ends up at half cock after firing your nipple needs replacing.
 
Zonie said:
Horner75 is right about the higher breech pressures so you folks who are shooting heavy conicals in a Percussion gun need to remember that the higher pressures can wear (or burn) out a nipple pretty fast.

If you start getting shots where the hammer ends up at half cock after firing your nipple needs replacing.

Another excellent point.
I bought the 1:32 barrel for my GPR and commenced to running several hundred conicals of different types and weights through it. The nipple burnt out rather quickly compared to my roundball barrel which still has the factory nipple, and has had at least twice as many shots fired through it.

HD
 
I shoot a hollow based mini like they used in the civil war with a turned tapered wooden plug like the civil war enfields. The plug helps the bullet expand and grip the rifling. It takes time to make each plug (As well as the time to cast each bullet ). Why go to all of the work? ACCURACY AND IMPACT ENERGY.Several years back I shot right though a large doe and crippled the button buck behind her with a 45 caliber using 75 grain FFF. Not bad for a 145 yard shot. Two deer with one shot. Before any one yelps about the range. I had my wood pile for a bench rest and the deer were standing broadside.
 
Thanks for all the replies. There's a lot of things to take into consideration. I'll most likely end up hunting with PRB's since I'm more comfortable with them. Maybe I'll just experiment with the Buffalo Bullets and see what happens....
 
And, finally, a PRB doesn't have any lead in contact with the bore, just a lubed patch. The conical puts lead against the bore which may or may not make cleaning the bore an issue. Same thing with plastic sabots. PRB's are a beautiful thing.
 
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