Buffalo with .50 GPR

[Enfield1]

Hello fellow shooters. I was watching my copy of "Jeremiah Johnson" the other day. Forgive me if this has already been discussed, but does the scene seem credible to you when he drops the buffalo at what appears to be about 100 yards with his .50 Hawken? I love to shoot my Lyman .50 GPR and would love the opportunity to hunt some western game with it, but I don't know if I could count on it to do what he did in the film. Your thoughts.

 

[musketman]

Hmmm, I remember him shooting an elk over the saddle, he did have a buffalo coat on when the wolves attacked him though...

Anyway, a .50 caliber should kill them, the famous Sharps Buffalo guns were .45-70, .45-90, .45-120, .50-90 ect...

Although they used elongated bullets, they were of the same or lesser caliber than you want to use, you may just have to use a bullet instead of a roundball...

However, if the range is close enough (50 yards or less), a patched roundball should be fine when pushed towards the maximum charge...

Keep in mind that an adult buffalo can stomp people into dust without too much effort, so you may want to check on minimum bullet weights allowed by state laws first...

 

[Bountyhunter]

While I believe that it is entirely possible to kill a buff from 100 yards with a .50, just remember that the chest capacity of a buff is equivalent to about 40 gallons. A single .50 bullet into the chest isnt likely to be a dropping shot. If you watch the hunting shows, where they hunt the buffs with the BP cartridge rifles, even the .45-120 or the "Big .50" or .50-90 I believe, they take a bit to die.

I wouldnt consider a buffalo to be the quarry of an occasional ML shooter, but if you shoot frequently and master your rifle and can handle the maximum loads, then it is possible. My mothers great grandfather shot buffalo around Ft. Wallace along about 1870 with a .50-70. He worked out there for two years as a buffalo hunter for the Fort and the railroad, so we know that a .50 cal will do it. Me thinks that doin it at a hundred yards with a patched round ball would be pushin the envelope though.
My 2 cents.

B

 

[rice1817]

Sam Fadala shot a buffalo in one of those controlled hunts with a 54 caliber. I don't remember if he was using ball or bullet, but the shot was very close...He had a photographer behind him and it was something like 40 yards as I recall.

A 180 grain 50 caliber roundball on a buffalo at 100 yards would be "marginal" at best. Now a 405 grain 45-70 bullet is something else. So is a 530 grain 45-110. There are documented instances of 300 yard+ 1 shot kills with those.

 

[paulvallandigham]

I join the rest. If you are going to hunt buffalo with a muzzle loader, work up a load using a conical bullet. The buffalo deserves the quicker death.

 

[JohnTheGreek]

Having hunted more than a few buffalo, I have to say that, in today's world of once in a lifetime opportunitites, where people pay to hunt, or there exists a tangible penalty for animals wounded and lost, a .50 cal. ML is marginal at the VERY best for the task at hand. In the 19th century, if a Buffalo Runner drew blood but couldn't recover the animal, there wasn't someone demanding payment, stamping their tag, or declaring that the hunt they had paid for was over. 19th century hunters had the dubious luxury of underestimating their quarry, we don't.

I took my first free roaming bull at under 20 yards with a .416 Rem and the bull took two rounds into the heart/lungs and didn't even flinch. Both were perfect shots. The third quick shot hit him in the spine and he dropped. Amazingly, NONE of those 400 grain bullets at 2400 fps exited the only moderately sized yet very old Yukon bull. Had the third shot not hit his spine and had he determined our position, he could have stomped us had he so desired, NO DOUBT. On another hunt, I had a 405 grain Remington core-lokt from a 45-70 literally SPLIT IN HALF by a sharp edge of broadside bison skull and fail to penetrate to the brain. The bull fell and appeared dead but got up and ran like hell when we got to within 10 feet of him! Again, he could have stomped us had he so desired but he (fortunately) ran in the other direction and a second bullet from my 1885 hit him in the spine ending it. My next attempt at a neck shot in Custer State Park saw me using the .416 loaded with solids with very good results.

Frankly, Bison will die with a .50 round ball in a lung but they will not do so quickly and on a big bodied bull I certainly have doubts as to the penetration capability of a .50 cal. You may get both lungs but maybe not. Conicals may more reliably take both lungs and lead to a quicker death but I still like bigger holes yielding more blood if I am paying big bucks for a hunt.

Honestly, when it comes to free roaming bison in a world where people are paying good money for hunts or drawing once in a lifetime tags, I think reasonable BP bison calibres start at 12 bore. This was Samuel White Baker's minimum on Cape Buffalo and they are LESS massive (particularly around the vitals) than NA bison by a pretty fair amount. My next hunt will see me using my 8 bore.

Also, for those interested, there is an article I wrote in the latest issue of Fair Chase magazine about free roaming bison opportunities....you don't need to hunt 'em behind a fence.

JMHO,

Buffler Runner

 

[RedFeather]

I believe that Fadala was using his custom .54 built by Dale Storey. It took conicals and used something like 160 grains Ffg. He called it his "magnum". Not the equivalent of a "regular" .54 cliber.

 

[faw3]

if your talking about the picture of the buffalo standimg up and over it was Sams brother doing the shooting and Sam takeing the picture I thought. got it here someplace in a magazine that has that.and it was a Storey 50, sidehammer shooting a ? white ? 600 grain "super slug"? (all this can be wrong its just what i think i saw a few weeks ago going thru one of dads books. blaine

 

[Enfield1]

Thank all of you for your opinions. As I stated in the opening of this post, I would not feel good about trying to take a buffalo with a .50 plains rifle and your valued opinions have confirmed that. How about that Hollywood junk where Kevin Costner in "Dances with Wolves" drops a running buffalo with a .44 Henry rimfire round! YEAH, RIGHT!

 

[paulvallandigham]

Actually, that was not hollywood myth. They did shoot buffalo with .44 rimfire Henry rifles. However, they shot the buffalo in the " hump" which is suppose to contain lots of nerves. It stunned the buffalo and parallelized it. The women who followed behind would then slit its throat with a knife! We don't hump shoot them any more because it is not considered a humane what to kill an animal. Different time, and different purposes. Hope that explains what you read about in books, or see at the movies. If you ever get to Chicago, go to the Natural History Museum, and go up on the second floor to see the permanent Am. Indians displays. They show actual souix bows and arrows that were used to shoot buffalo. The arrows are barely 12 inches long. They worked becuase they were shot from a distance of only a few feet into those humps. to put the buffalo down for later killing. The bows,BTW, are less than 2 feet long.That seems like a kids bow, until you try to shoot a bow pulling back on the bowstring while the bow is held horizontal with the string under your arm, which is how Indians shot the bows from horseback.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

According to Sam himself, he was using his Mulford .54 caliber rifle and a patched ball. And even though the ball took out one side of the buff's brain, it still got back on its feet and it needed a second shot to put it down for good! His brother caught the whole thing on film, and I would dearly love to see that sequence.

 

[Big John]

I dropped a buff two years ago with a maxi ball, 80grs. of 777 at 60yds, through the heart and came out the other side, 15 seconds later he was history.

 

[Leatherbark]

I remember the article about Fadala.......He had a picture of the .530 round ball that he took from the Buffalo...........it was flat and weighed as much as when new. He was showing the cohesiveness of pure lead.....The load I remember was 120gr and he said the velocity was around 2000fps..................Bob

 

[omgb]

If you recall, Jeremiah in one scene, is shooting a deer and not only does the rifle not recoil nor smoke upon firing, but it looks as if someone just tossed a dead deer into camera view.

I've seen two buff killed over the years, neither died fast. They seem to be able to soak up a great deal of energy without falling victim to shock.

 

[shmrck1]

I have always heard and read that buffs were
not the brightest of Gods' creations but they
were not the easiest to kill either. :hmm:
snake-eyes

 

[bavarialand]

are you familiure with a show called "Black powder guns and hunting" with O'neil williams-? in one show he dropped a Buff with a .54 Hawken out of the box with 90grns of FFG. and it lazered at 109yrds. Dave :bow:

 

[gmww]

Well my only experience killing a buffalo was a few years back. They are not the brightest of animals and I understand why they almost got wiped out.

My 2 year old bull took two .54 cal. hits 2" apart at 55 yards. I was using 85 gns. 2f. Both conicals were retrieved. Entered the chest and were found near the hind quarters on the opposite side. One shot cut the liver in half. The other took out one lung. Despite the range, hits, and size of the bullet (great plains conical) the beast took approximately 20 mins. to die.

Good tasting animal though. I'd shoot another one if I can find a place close enough and cheap enough to me. :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

Thanks for all these different post Im not sure about what kind of gun Sam was shooting just I hadnt heard of it before , dad has a Buff hunt set up for me in 5 or 6 months and im trying to rad up on every book he has on it and he has 100s 4 of the Sam guy with 3 different buffalos all are thick magazine types with no covers ect. Hes insisting i use a 60 or 62 at least (Hawken), and he will be behind with another muzzle loader but not shooting a round ball but just as big , so thanks for any information , dad always cracks up about redford in that show and many others that shoot "magic bullets" and the 5 to 10 guys with mac's or uzi or h and k's shooting 500 shots in a second not hitting the good guy at all 10 yards away. blaine.

 

[gmww]

Hey Blaine tell your dad to bring the .62 underhammer to hand you as back up. Get a close as you can when you shoot the buffalo in the chest. Let us know how it goes and take plentyof pictures of the two of you! :hatsoff:

 

[faw3]

A 62 Hawken and pictures of us running? :rotf: blaine.