shotgunner
32 Cal.
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Does anyone here buffer their buckshot loads to help hold pattern together?
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Buffering agent for buckshot load
- Thread starter shotgunner
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I've tried buffered loads in my 20 ga. fowler. I load 80 gr. FFg, an over powder card, a lubed fiber wad, #4 buck (18 pellets), some Cream of Wheat cereal, then an over shot card. Before ramming home the final card, I tap the butt on my shoe a few times to get the C of W to settle in between the shot pellets. To be honest, I really didn't notice any difference in patterns between the buffered and unbuffered loads. Hope this helps! :thumbsup:
Guest
The greatest help given to a load of shot from buffering, is when the shot charge is first compressed in the chamber's forcing cone, then again when it goes through the choke.
: With a ML smoothbore, without either forcing cone nor choke, buffering agents are not as worthwhile. Loaded into a ctg. they may help with less deformation from the initial "Slam", but that is where black powder loads differ from modern smokeless loads. BP loads are given a less violent start, and therefore don't deform the pellets as do modern shotshells.
: Buckshot in general, is a poor method of taking large game like deer. From what I've seen in print, the max range is around 25yds.-30yds. With a patched round ball, the range will be a minimum of 60yds. and with load development, can be extended to 100yds. of sure killing power.
: With a ML smoothbore, without either forcing cone nor choke, buffering agents are not as worthwhile. Loaded into a ctg. they may help with less deformation from the initial "Slam", but that is where black powder loads differ from modern smokeless loads. BP loads are given a less violent start, and therefore don't deform the pellets as do modern shotshells.
: Buckshot in general, is a poor method of taking large game like deer. From what I've seen in print, the max range is around 25yds.-30yds. With a patched round ball, the range will be a minimum of 60yds. and with load development, can be extended to 100yds. of sure killing power.
Rat
50 Cal.
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- Sep 16, 2004
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Haven't you guys ever heard of the old-timer's "tallow" trick?
Shot was often mixed with tallow, to hold the pattern together. I believe some market-gunners used it in the big 4 and 8 bore "market" guns.
I've experimented with this, with bird-shot, and it does work.
However...I used a lube-bee's wax mix. I found that I had to mix my "tallow" just right. Too gooey and it won't do much. Too firm and the shot can clump together, especially in real cold weather.
But...get it just right and it will improve patterns.
You can probably guess that it's quite a hassle to experiment with it and get it right, and it's messy working with it any way you look at it. If you put it in a paper shot cartridge, that might work good, but I don't know how long a "shelf-life" it will have before the paper is totally soaked and "melts down". Might work if you made them the day before the hunt.
If you load shot-cartridges for modern revolvers, it works especially good for that, as it's contained in the plastic shot capsual.
Just a thought. Have no idea if it works with buck shot, but seems like it might, especially if you made the mix extra firm.
Rat
Shot was often mixed with tallow, to hold the pattern together. I believe some market-gunners used it in the big 4 and 8 bore "market" guns.
I've experimented with this, with bird-shot, and it does work.
However...I used a lube-bee's wax mix. I found that I had to mix my "tallow" just right. Too gooey and it won't do much. Too firm and the shot can clump together, especially in real cold weather.
But...get it just right and it will improve patterns.
You can probably guess that it's quite a hassle to experiment with it and get it right, and it's messy working with it any way you look at it. If you put it in a paper shot cartridge, that might work good, but I don't know how long a "shelf-life" it will have before the paper is totally soaked and "melts down". Might work if you made them the day before the hunt.
If you load shot-cartridges for modern revolvers, it works especially good for that, as it's contained in the plastic shot capsual.
Just a thought. Have no idea if it works with buck shot, but seems like it might, especially if you made the mix extra firm.
Rat
Caywood has a spot about this on their site. Basically, they recommend using the corn muffin mix rather than corn meal since it's finer and the idea is to push the shot charge down far enough to leave a space equal in volume to the shot column. Pour this amount full of the corn meal mix and tap the side of the barrel till the mix settles all the way down into the shot. Then it's just a matter of pushing in an over-shot card and pushing the whole load down on the powder charge. Haven't tried it myself but they swear it works great. Might give their site a peak and see.
Daryl, you make quite a bit of sense. All I can say is that I have patterned my gun on paper with both buffered and unbuffered buck, and I didn't see any difference between them. Obviously, blackpowder has a more linear burning curve (it burns more slowly as it goes downbore), whereas smokeless sorta goes in one sudden swoosh. Plus, as you said, the shot isn't being squeezed through a choke in most muzzleoading applications. :thumbsup:
In my humble opinion buffering will improve any shotgun load. Some guy (Fadala?) did an article in a gun mg about ML's and buffering with cream of wheat, etc. It seemed to work.
It is a lot of trouble, though.
Course some tried using cream of wheat over the powder and under a prb and also found improvement???
The buffering serves to keep the shot from deforming as the soft lead pellets are shoved up the bore. Anything that can keep significant numbers of pellets round will improve patterns. Ideally buffering, a sleeve (cylinder?) that keeps the pellets from deforming against barrel, a good gas seal and cushion over the powder and something over the shot that doesn't get in the way will tighten patterns in all shotguns.
I found that relatively light loads, thumbsize wads of newspaper wadding over the powder and premeasured shot charges tied up in thin "baggies" corners gave good hunting results. I had a gang mold for 308 rb and used them a lot.
(Don't tell on me about the baggies!)
Cheaters used to pour parafin over their shot columns in ctg guns and get fantastic patterns! Them "baggies", cut off with scissors and loaded tie down over light charges put all 225 #6 pellets in a big thumb sized hole at 40 yds! They cause riots at country turkeyshoots.
PS: Thes folks "in here" done forgot more than I know about ML's but we used to kill lots of deer, in the south, with buckshot when we were allowed to use dogs! The patterns of ML shotguns are not much different, nor the velocities of the shot, from cyl bore ctg guns. Lacking any forcing cone they may be better? OO buck carries to better ranges and retains its velocity better than smaller shot, too. Any deer I ever saw hit with a full load of OO didn't go far! They usually tumbled in a heap! Pattern it first, of course, with different buckshot sizes.
:yakyak:
It is a lot of trouble, though.
Course some tried using cream of wheat over the powder and under a prb and also found improvement???
The buffering serves to keep the shot from deforming as the soft lead pellets are shoved up the bore. Anything that can keep significant numbers of pellets round will improve patterns. Ideally buffering, a sleeve (cylinder?) that keeps the pellets from deforming against barrel, a good gas seal and cushion over the powder and something over the shot that doesn't get in the way will tighten patterns in all shotguns.
I found that relatively light loads, thumbsize wads of newspaper wadding over the powder and premeasured shot charges tied up in thin "baggies" corners gave good hunting results. I had a gang mold for 308 rb and used them a lot.
(Don't tell on me about the baggies!)
Cheaters used to pour parafin over their shot columns in ctg guns and get fantastic patterns! Them "baggies", cut off with scissors and loaded tie down over light charges put all 225 #6 pellets in a big thumb sized hole at 40 yds! They cause riots at country turkeyshoots.
PS: Thes folks "in here" done forgot more than I know about ML's but we used to kill lots of deer, in the south, with buckshot when we were allowed to use dogs! The patterns of ML shotguns are not much different, nor the velocities of the shot, from cyl bore ctg guns. Lacking any forcing cone they may be better? OO buck carries to better ranges and retains its velocity better than smaller shot, too. Any deer I ever saw hit with a full load of OO didn't go far! They usually tumbled in a heap! Pattern it first, of course, with different buckshot sizes.
:yakyak:
One thing to consider with shot of any size. Harder shot patterns tighter. In an open choke it might not be as noticeable as in a choked gun, but should make a difference. Hard shot, like steel, often patterns tighter in a open choke better than a tight one. This contradiction is because the shot doesn't deform readily passing through the choke. With steel in a modified choke you may get full type patterns. Now in a ML you will probably use lead shot, so a hardened type lead shot will cost more, but should pattern tighter.
Jack Walker
40 Cal.
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Try this site, it is very informative and will give you the basics for target/hunting loads. It is:
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html
I have improved my shot/ball loads greatly since reading this material. Hope it helps. :thumbsup:
http://members.aye.net/~bspen/SmoothboreLoads.html
I have improved my shot/ball loads greatly since reading this material. Hope it helps. :thumbsup:
Guest
exactly - and ML shotguns with chokes should see 'some' improvement.
: That said, if a situation like the old Ely ctgs. could be made, we would have again, the terrific long range tight patterns of the mid 1800's. These involved wire mesh containers that released the shot only after a specific period of time. They were segregated in colours for various ranges.
: I've thought that perhaps a ctg. made from a roll of paper, with slits, holes or cuts that permitted thisslow release, would work with some developement.
: That said, if a situation like the old Ely ctgs. could be made, we would have again, the terrific long range tight patterns of the mid 1800's. These involved wire mesh containers that released the shot only after a specific period of time. They were segregated in colours for various ranges.
: I've thought that perhaps a ctg. made from a roll of paper, with slits, holes or cuts that permitted thisslow release, would work with some developement.
