c&b revolver or plains pistol?

[pepperbelly]

I am trying to figure out what pistol I want. I have been thinking about the various revolvers and have narrowed it down to either a 1860 Army or a 1858 Remington.
After reading about the different flintlock pistols I realize that I didn't know much about them. I think if I get a flintlock pistol it would probably be a plains pistol, either a kit or a finished pistol.
Which would have the most fun factor, a revolver or a flinter?
I have a T/C Hawken. Would the plains pistol make a good companion piece? I also plan on getting a flintlock rifle or musket before too long.
Whichever I get I will probably get the other sometime, but I can't afford both right now.
Ideas, comments or suggestions?
Jim

 

[oldmaster]

I have a percussion pistol to go with my Hawken rifle and also have a 51 Navy and a 58 Remington. The revolvers have more of a cowboy feel to me and the pistol just seems right with the rifle. I think it depends on if you are going to reenact or rondy often or just like to shoot matches and hunt would also help in your decision. :m2c:

 

[pepperbelly]

I may hunt with the pistol, but mostly just target shooting and plinking. If it is accurate enough I may hunt small game. It will be mostly for fun.
Arcticap I have a lot of experience with smokeless revolvers and semi-auto pistols. I used to be a cop and carried S&W a revolver before seeing the light and changing to a .45acp. I now have a Springfield Armory Custom Loaded stainless .45acp. I love this pistol, even more than the old Colt MkIV Series 70 I carried as a cop.
Thanks,
Jim

 

[Zonie]

You would like the feel of the Colt pistols. Perhaps the most natural pointing pistol I've ever held.
The Remington grip shape is noticeably different and the gun (to me) feels a little awkward.
As you have found while reading other posts about these two pistols, each has advantages and disadvantages.
The trigger pull on both of these C&B guns is usually very good.

The single shot pistol is lighter and easier to carry.
When it comes to trigger pull, there are some good ones and some poor ones. The Lyman Great Plains Pistol is usually good but I've heard of a few that left a lot to be desired.
The CVA and Traditions pistols are Spanish, and are (IMO)pretty crude.

IMO, a Pistol is not the place to learn how to shoot Flintlocks.
Flintlocks of any kind are what I would call the Doctorate Level of marksmanship.
Even the best made versions of them still fires slower than most precussion guns. Any movement of the hand in the time between pulling the trigger and the guns firing will affect your shot. While this is OK for just plinking, if you want the shot to really count this can be frustrating.

For me, this makes the precussion gun the obvious choice for a pistol. :results:

 

[pepperbelly]

Thanks Zonie, that is the kind of info I needed.
I went to Cabela's today and handled a few c&b pistols.
I like the 1858 Remington, and the target model's sights are very easy to use. They didn't have an 1860 Army model but they did have a Navy/Civilian model. It and the 1851 they had look and feel good, except the grips feel small in my hand. That may just take some getting used to.
I also handled a Walker. That is one LARGE pistol.
It may come back down to a choice between an 1860 Army and an 1858 Remington again.
Jim

 

[rayb]

get a good quality 1860 Army

shoot it a lot

you'll like it

rayb

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The '60 Colt has a longer grip than the Navy model or the Remington. It is said that this was because the '60 was the first Colt to kick. Even with full loads, the kick is barely noticeable, so this may be an old wives tale.
That said, it is also true that you can't go wrong with a Walker. I've had one around now for 30 years, and my one regret is that I didn't get one sooner. I've got three now, and that's almost enough....I think.

 

[Zonie]

Don't know if I would agree about the Walker.

It's a neat gun, and I own one of them, but at over 4 1/2 pounds (loaded) it isn't worth a dam for off hand target shooting and if you ever find a holster for it and hang it on your hip, your pants, belt, holster and Walker will soon be down around your ankles.
IMO, the only reason the Walker was acceptable to the Calvary was because it was considered a "horse pistol" which meant the horse carried it in saddle mounted holsters.
For this same reason, I cannot recommend any of the 3 models of Dragoon Pistols (I own the 3rd model) if your going to walk around with it. Too Damned Heavy!

If you like the feel of a revolver that feels a little bigger than a .44 cal Colt or a Remington (it is) and don't mind spending a little more money, give serious consideration to buying a .44 cal Rogers & Spencer.

Dam! Just like being a kid in a Candy Store.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I wouldn't mind a Rogers & Spencer myself. I've never found one at a reasonable price...maybe someday. The trick with the Walker is to have a shoulder strap that attaches to the pistol belt and helps to keep it from falling down around your knees. I've sometimes wondered how Robert Duvall kept his around his waist with just a belt in "Lonesome Dove".
I fire my Walkers off hand and with a standard two hand hold. I like the grip on my Colts better than the one on my Uberti because they are thicker, but the Uberti is a favorite anyway. I find the Walker hangs nicely in the hand and the extra range is a plus.

 

[Doc Arroyo]

Ideas, comments or suggestions?

Well Jim, you asked!

Don't buy a revolver until you have shot both the Remington and the Colt. What feels good in the hand might not feel so good while firing.

As for the single shot... :imo: most of the commercially available pistols and kits are better clubs than shooters. Not that they aren't accurate...many are. But the danged things have way too much wood on them! Pistols of the flinch-lock and percurssin periods were slender and graceful, not at all like the "mountain pistols" that some makers put on the shelf.

Some questions for you. Are you reinacting, or just shooting for fun? Is pistol accuracy or historical accuracy the main thing? Do you want a rifled pistol, or have you thought about a smoothbore?

 

[Rat]

Oh oh someone better come to the defense of the single shot pistol! I like (LOVE!) the revolvers, but here goes!

I just got a Plains Pistol in .50 calibre lately, and I am very happy with it. I can find nothing wrong with it. I've fired 65 grain loads in it, and the stock did NOT turn into sawdust! The stock has a very nice, tight grain to it.

The feel and balence of it is DIFFERENT than a revolver. Not better, not worse. I think the single shot pistol is best shot like a rifle, (without the stock of course) with the left hand supporting the pistol in front of the trigger guard, under the "forearm". With a one-hand hold, the Plains Pistol is somewhat muzzle heavy...but again I don't think a one handed hold is the hot ticket to shooting these pistols.

The revolver has five more shots, but you pay for that with a five times slower reload.

If your cap jams the revolver after the first shot, you have a single shot revolver anyhow. Same if you get a chain fire. If the lever drops, you won't get a fast second shot.

The single shot has FAR more power than a revolver, and can eaisly be had in calibers larger than .45.

My Plains pistol is well made, looks and handles nice, and is VERY accurate.

I decided to try a single shot because I wanted a pistol with much more power than a revolver, for a hunting backup pistol when I'm using Bess loaded with shot. When I got to thinking about how you don't always get your six shots out of a revolver, I didn't see any point in packing a Dragoon or Walker, which still will not match the power of a Plains Pistol.

For plinking and fun, or a sidearm that might serve to take small game, or dispatch large game with a shot in the back of the head, a revolver is fine. I'll still be packing my Remington Navy when Bess is loaded with ball, or I'm using the Jeager.

But a single shot will also plink and have fun, take small game, and dispatch big game. So don't be too quick to write off the single shot. If you decide you want to take a deer with a pistol, I think the single shot is superior hands down.

Rat

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

I've got two single shot pistols, a 20 gauge smoothbore flintlock and a .577 caliber rifled percussion style. Love 'em both and they make fine companions and backup guns for my fowler amd '53 Enfield, respectively.

 

[pepperbelly]

Some questions for you. Are you reinacting, or just shooting for fun? Is pistol accuracy or historical accuracy the main thing? Do you want a rifled pistol, or have you thought about a smoothbore?

This will be just for the fun of it. Idon't re-enact and historical accuracy isn't that important. I would prefer a revolver that is close to the original, but would buy a Ruger Old Army in a heartbeat even though it isn't a true historical replica. I am leaning to the Colt 1860 by Uberti or Pietta. I want one of each, but ain't no way my wife will go for that.
Jim

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

How much can you spend? There are Ubertis available at www.gunbroker.com and www.auctionarms.com for reasonable money. I believe the extra money for the Uberti is well spent. I think that the Colt 1860 Army is better balanced than the Remington and for what it's worth, I think that the Colt is also a bit more elegant, but that is a purely subjective observation. When I lay my '60 Armies next to the Remington, the Colt just looks "gunnier" to my eye. The grip on the Colt is longer and is very comfortable. Both guns produce good accuracy and are reliable in my experience.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I haven't replied to this, mainly 'cause I wanted to see what everyone else had to say on the subject before I did.

A fixed sight '58 Remington is much easier to hit with than ANY of the Colt open top guns, due to the differences in the sighting systems. Once you get used to the sights on a Colt though, you've shot it enough to probably ignore the sights anyway and "point-shoot".

Some people like the handling of the Colts better and if I had to choose?--The 1858 Remington makes a better target/hunting gun and the Colt 1860 Army makes a better close range combat gun. The long grip handled ("4 screw frame") 1860 Colt Army is the best "pointing" of the revolvers, especially if you have bigger hands. The Colt Navy is better in a smaller hand, and you can have it in .36 caliber. You can also get the '58 Remington as a Navy model in .36 caliber and with a shorter barrel, which is a very nice handling gun also.

As far as accuracy for hunting and targets, the single shot .50 caliber Traditions Trapper is an excellent gun. It has double set triggers and adjustable sights. Traditions also makes the Pioneer Pistol in .45 caliber and the .32 caliber Crockett Pistol which are more simple in design. The Lyman Great Plains Pistol can be had in .50 or .54 caliber, so it packs the most wallop for larger game. It is also a very good shooter despite the primitive style sights.

A Colt Walker or the Colt Dragoons are VERY heavy and were all meant for use on horseback--not intended to be carried on belts. They don't lag too far behind the single shot pistols and in some rare cases actually can exceed them in power. Depends on the caliber and how much powder it can safely be loaded with according to the manufacturer.

As far as cost goes, you are looking at similar pricing for a single shot pistol a typical revolver. So if you've really got to keep the cost down, there's not going to be too much difference initially. BUT, you will need to buy some additional accessories for the revolver though. Won't get into that right now, but that could affect the total overall cost of choosing the revolver.

There is a neat flintlock pistol from Deer Creek products that is basically a copy of the CVA .45 cal. Tower pistol. It has a rifled barrel but NO sights though. This is more of a fun piece than practical--except for close range duels.

The single shot pistol kits are fairly straightforward to assemble if you're mechanically inclined. A revolver kit can be tedious and frustrating, or it might just need polished and final finishing, they vary in that respect. If it's your first handgun, I'd stick with a finished pistol or revolver than a kit though.

Since you have a rifle, you already know how to load a single shot pistol. Likewise if your rifle is flintlock and .54 cal. then logically the best choice would be to get a flintlock pistol in the same caliber. Likewise if it's percussion and .50, or whatever combination of lock and caliber... stick with the same in the pistol.

Loading the revolvers is a whole different "ball game". You don't use patches as in the rifle or single shot pistol. The ball is slightly oversized for the revovler chambers, whereas the ball is slightly undersized for the bore in your rifle. You also should seal the chambers with grease or use a lubed wad between the powder and the ball in each loaded chamber. The caps can fall off sometimes from recoil, the cap fragments can sometimes fall into the inside of the frameworks and jam up the revolver too.

You also already know how to clean a single shot pistol, which is the same as your rifle. The clean up on a revolver is not difficult, but is more involved and can require disassembly. The internal works are quite fragile and the springs in a revolver can break easily especially from a cap fragment in the wrong place. There's also a bizarre phenomenon called a "chain fire", or "multiple discharge" that can occur with a revolver. Currently one of the hottest threads in this section is on theorizing what actually causes it to happen. I wouldn't let that affect your choice though.

Anyway, I'm not trying to change your mind about the 1860 Colt Army that you seem to have made your decision on. Either the Pietta or Uberti will be a nice choice. The price will be different too. Make sure you get the steel frame, "4-screw" long grip model.

That's enough out of me, huh? Make sure to let us know what you end up with, OK?

Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Plainsman1540552678]

I agree, I have a 54 cal. plains pistol from lyman, and it is extremely accurate!!! have split balls on an axehead from 20 yards several times with it!!! :results:

 

[Rat]

The Plains Pistol IS accurate...my results did NOT vary!

Indeed, at 20 yards, just yesterday I put some Hornady 240 grain "Ball-ets" into the same holes...certainly could have split one on a axe-head. I still have not benched it with round ball, but from my first shooting session with it I believe the balls are equally if not more accurate.

As it uses the same breech and barrel as the rifles, I would maintain that it is definately more powerful than ANY revolver, regardless of manufacturer reccommended loads.

:blah: Take THAT Mr.Hillbilly! (Just kidding, I know what you were saying)(but serious about the above statement on power)

The next most accurate BP pistol I own is a Uberti Remington Navy. 1.5" at 20 yards.

Rat

 

[john s mosby]

This has been an interesting post. Everyone has their favorites. So, I may as well share my favorites. I have 2 Colt 1860's and love to shoot them. Always wanted to try Cowboy Action Shooting with them but I don't have the shot gun and rifle I'd need. But if I just want to have fun at the range I take my 45 cal smooth bore flintlock pistol. It's fast to load, I don't have to be sure to get those caps on the nipples just right. At 10 or 15 yards it groups very good. Mine is an unknown maker custom flint pistol I found at an estate sale.
Cleaning is fast too, just pull the barrel and lock off and I'm done in no time.
As far as the weight of the revolvers, well, I just got holsters and a matching belt from TOTW for both my Colts and when you have them on you know it. I sure wouldn't want to wear a pair of Walker's around.
In the end everyone likes something different. I like the flinter the best but the revolvers are right up there too.
Guess it just depends on if I want to play Civil War or Rev War that day.

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

Shucks, John, having a Walker on each hip just balances a man out. Makes him light on his feet and eager to go dancing with his best gal. It's lugging all that ammunition around that tuckers you out.

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

The Plains Pistol IS accurate...my results did NOT vary!

:blah: Take THAT Mr.Hillbilly! (Just kidding, I know what you were saying)(but serious about the above statement on power)

Rat

Hey, If I got upset over that, I'd never be able to survive on any forum. I do know what you mean as well. I'd never trade my .54 GPP for ANY revolver or other handgun! I've had lots of "no-name" imports, kits, pistols, revolvers, flint, percussion, and there are unique things that made each one useful in their own way, but that Lyman is "something special".

Regards, and Shoot Safely!
WV_Hillbilly