Calibre questions

[Jappo]

I shot a turkey at about 100 yards with a 32 Crockett. Patched round ball (don't remember the size) with 40gr 3f. It knocked it down but it would have run off if it wasn't for my Lab. He caught it and finished it off. Upon inspection after dressing it out. The ball was about halfway in the breast. Not a killing shot. Did good on cottontail though. But most were may 30 yards or less, some were running.

 

[reddogge]

I built both a .32 and a .36 rifle. I really like the .36 for accurate, comfortable economical target shooting. The .32 is a squirrel rifle and my .50 is a hunting/longer range rifle.

 

[DillyJamba]

I am in no sense of the word, wealthy. I'm retired, no income other than a pension and SS. But never, ever have I considered a muzzle loader caliber having any bearing on expense. It cost what it cost. My two rifles are .50 and .54. I mean to say I love the sport and the price of components is nothing compared to shooting less or the difference in cost of powder and lead. Once you have all the other possible for your rifles, that expense is over and done. When I run low on balls, powder, and patching, I simply buy what I need. To put it another way, we are all into the black powder game or we are not. I will do without some other frivolity, but I will keep shooting as long as components are available.

True and when compared to other hobbies, or modern shooting cost per hour is exceptionally cheap once the equipment is purchased.

At least with how slow I am, I’m lucky to get off 30-40 rounds in a range session.

 

[SDSmlf]

Recent experience, my grandson was shooting our silhouette match with his .32 squirrel rifle. 15 grains 3 f. He actually hit a 60 and an 80 yard silhouette. We heard them ping. Hardly even moved the targets.

I love my 32 caliber muzzleloaders. Great on small critters up to smaller coyotes out to maybe 35 yards, beyond that, wrong gun. Remember shooting at around 100 yards at a buddy of mine’s home ‘range’. The 1-1/2 buckshot bounced off the pallets that were being used to hold the targets.

 

[JDBraddy]

My grandfather, 1892-1980 returned from WW-I and bought a lever action chambered in .32WCF a black-powder cartridge also known as the .32-20 which I'm told means 32 caliber, and 20 grains of black powder.

I know this rifle harvested literally hundreds of deer, coyotes, cougars, even a bear or two over the next six decades.

Perhapse I'm wrong, but would imagine a .32 caliber muzzle stuffer should be capable of similar performance.

Don't hear of a lot of historical references to.32 caliber muzzle loaders. I'm sure they existed, but doubt they where that common.

Many call .32 calibers Crockett rifles, though I've read that "Ol Betsy" on display at the Alamo is actually a .40 caliber. And Daniel Boons "Tick-Licker" was a .44 caliber.

 

[ronaldrothb49]

My grandfather, 1892-1980 returned from WW-I and bought a lever action chambered in .32WCF a black-powder cartridge also known as the .32-20 which I'm told means 32 caliber, and 20 grains of black powder.

I know this rifle harvested literally hundreds of deer, coyotes, cougars, even a bear or two over the next six decades.

Perhapse I'm wrong, but would imagine a .32 caliber muzzle stuffer should be capable of similar performance.

Don't hear of a lot of historical references to.32 caliber muzzle loaders. I'm sure they existed, but doubt they where that common.

Many call .32 calibers Crockett rifles, though I've read that "Ol Betsy" on display at the Alamo is actually a .40 caliber. And Daniel Boons "Tick-Licker" was a .44 caliber.

If you are using the same bullet and a similar fast twist rifling in both then you could probably get similar results. The problem comes from the round ball in a muzzle loader.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

You’re all doing a great job of convincing me to order that 40 cal SMR I’ve been dreaming about.

The most accurate uk percussion target rifles were made by Gibbs of Bristol. .400
up to 400 yards and .450 to 1000 yards. Many buy Pedrosoli but still expensive

 

[DillyJamba]

The most accurate uk percussion target rifles were made by Gibbs of Bristol. .400
up to 400 yards and .450 to 1000 yards. Many buy Pedrosoli but still expensive

Those are for conical though correct?

Only interested in roundball.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Those are for conical though correct?

Only interested in roundball.

I recall it’s 1:15 twist for a Gibbs so definitely a conical Yes a patched round ball has more charisma

 

[Mike in FL]

If you are using the same bullet and a similar fast twist rifling in both then you could probably get similar results. The problem comes from the round ball in a muzzle loader.

Remember when Marlin came out with the lever action 32-20? You could also get it in 25-20. About 1985 or '90 I think. Anyway I bought one in 32-20. I surely do wish I'd kept it. It was a dandy all around hunting gun and would skewer a pop can at 100 yards every time. That was with factory smokeless rounds. I don't think a 32, 36, or 40 BP gun with PRB would be nearly as effective. I sold that Marlin because the factory ammo was so very expensive. All that said, I'd take a long rifle in .40 anyway over that repeater.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Remember when Marlin came out with the lever action 32-20? You could also get it in 25-20. About 1985 or '90 I think. Anyway I bought one in 32-20. I surely do wish I'd kept it. It was a dandy all around hunting gun and would skewer a pop can at 100 yards every time. That was with factory smokeless rounds. I don't think a 32, 36, or 40 BP gun with PRB would be nearly as effective. I sold that Marlin because the factory ammo was so very expensive. All that said, I'd take a long rifle in .40 anyway over that repeater.

I think you are right if I see where you are coming from. Lead balls below .45 have so little weight they just cannot store enough energy to get the job done. You really have to forget the charisma of a patch ball and go to conicals That’s where the power is Conicals But then you end up with long bullets requiring a fast twist.

I hesitate to introduce my 450-400 3 inch nitro at. 4000 ft lbs post 1885,!but the earlier BP version with a 270g bullet at 1850 ft sec produced 2050 ft lbs more than enough for any any North American game

The argument I guess should be the energy of the projectile. And balls v conicals of course conicals will not shoot accurately in slow twist barrels , and the longer the bullet the worse it gets. •5 lead balls makes me happy

From the finger photo the .400 is a big long bullet capable of taking elephant, Elk and bear. My favourite for my .36 ml is the Sierra 175gr pistol bullet ???? .308 in a .36 sabot might be interesting too

Compare the big .410 400gr bullet with the tiny .36 175 gr pistol bullet

Just rambling on pushing my luck with unmentionables like my 450/400 double for Africa.

The loves of my life the .36ml and my 450/400 photo

Nice to chat. Only seen one squirrel this year , but they took a hammering last year. Ha ha

ML seems to be a small pastime in uk, so I guess sadly no comment

 

[Mike in FL]

Wow. Just wow.

 

[Nav]

Some maths...

Round is at once the most stable shape (hence the musket), and it has the worst ballistic coefficient possible. It literally ploughs the air and creates a massive, turbulent vacuum behind it slowing it down. That said, the transition between supersonic and sub sonic (transonic) doesn't affect it like it does a conical, bullet-shaped, bullet.

Don't forget, that despite 177gr weight of a .490 RPB it has HALF the BC of a 35gr .22lr. With a muzzle velocity of 1450 it will go sub sonic @ 60 yards.

A 47gr .32 RPB moving 1450fps at the muzzle goes sub sonic at 40yds! That's also a "full charge" that most of us don't use except when hunting and needing down range energy (as the turkey anecdote points out).

They drop like stones, so if you want to actually shoot "long range" (over 100yds IMHO) a .50 RPB is a sub caliber. The larger muskets (despite being smooth bores) are the ones that will do it.

It seems to me that before Monsieur Minié's invention they were getting bigger and bigger for military use.... If it's gona be a ball all you can really do is go bigger.

That said, LOVE shooting my .32 SMR at 25yd steel. Heaven!

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Some maths...

Round is at once the most stable shape (hence the musket), and it has the worst ballistic coefficient possible. It literally ploughs the air and creates a massive, turbulent vacuum behind it slowing it down. That said, the transition between supersonic and sub sonic (transonic) doesn't affect it like it does a conical, bullet-shaped, bullet.

Don't forget, that despite 177gr weight of a .490 RPB it has HALF the BC of a 35gr .22lr. With a muzzle velocity of 1450 it will go sub sonic @ 60 yards.

A 47gr .32 RPB moving 1450fps at the muzzle goes sub sonic at 40yds! That's also a "full charge" that most of us don't use except when hunting and needing down range energy (as the turkey anecdote points out).

They drop like stones, so if you want to actually shoot "long range" (over 100yds IMHO) a .50 RPB is a sub caliber. The larger muskets (despite being smooth bores) are the ones that will do it.

It seems to me that before Monsieur Minié's invention they were getting bigger and bigger for military use.... If it's gona be a ball all you can really do is go bigger.

That said, LOVE shooting my .32 SMR at 25yd steel. Heaven!

Not feeling great today after Tuesdays immutherapy infusion keeping 4 tumours under control. Keeps me alive for years to come Ha ha just sitting in under the shade reading my favourite ML comments. Not up to archery today It will pass I sit in hope that a tiger has escaped from the local Zoo, but that puts me in India, not Africa well Nigeria. Where my kids grew up , ok 3 years 4 ton7 , pigeon keeps me company not to mention my fox

Still got a bit of ££££$$ put aside for my gunny hobby at 81. Been collecting bullets moulds on eBay uk, kids can sell them on when I am gone.

I mentioned this Scottish . 577 before for long range shooting stags , 36” barrel , the balls and mini bullets in my hand are great brutal things for a human to be blasted with, terrible injuries a soldier could look forward to, plenty of images of war wounds on google , a •308 looks a gentle bullet in comparison .

The other oddity was a pair of 1885 Westley Richards BP barrels 1885, Metford riffling converted back to percussion I don’t have a bullet mould as yet, but I must see how it shoots with round balls,

Some maths...

Round is at once the most stable shape (hence the musket), and it has the worst ballistic coefficient possible. It literally ploughs the air and creates a massive, turbulent vacuum behind it slowing it down. That said, the transition between supersonic and sub sonic (transonic) doesn't affect it like it does a conical, bullet-shaped, bullet.

“Don't forget, that despite 177gr weight of a .490 RPB it has HALF the BC of a 35gr .22lr. With a muzzle velocity of 1450 it will go sub sonic @ 60 yards.”’

That shook me a bit so the .490 is 177gr that’s the same weight at a .36 Sierra pistol bullet. 175gr in my little.36 ml double, never thought of it like that But the .490 could open up flat on impact , great stopping power , but then Sierra would pass through you like acupuncture

Pity no camp fire to chat around, so much enjoyment in your forum, love from London

Apology I seemed to have jumped into your conversation ?????!!!!!



A 47gr .32 RPB moving 1450fps at the muzzle goes sub sonic at 40yds! That's also a "full charge" that most of us don't use except when hunting and needing down range energy (as the turkey anecdote points out).

They drop like stones, so if you want to actually shoot "long range" (over 100yds IMHO) a .50 RPB is a sub caliber. The larger muskets (despite being smooth bores) are the ones that will do it.

It seems to me that before Monsieur Minié's invention they were getting bigger and bigger for military use.... If it's gona be a ball all you can really do is go bigger.

That said, LOVE shooting my .32 SMR at 25yd steel. Heaven!

 

[Gordoncourtney]

Not feeling great today after Tuesdays immutherapy infusion keeping 4 tumours under control. Keeps me alive for years to come Ha ha just sitting in under the shade reading my favourite ML comments. Not up to archery today It will pass I sit in hope that a tiger has escaped from the local Zoo, but that puts me in India, not Africa well Nigeria. Where my kids grew up , ok 3 years 4 ton7 , pigeon keeps me company not to mention my fox

Still got a bit of ££££$$ put aside for my gunny hobby at 81. Been collecting bullets moulds on eBay uk, kids can sell them on when I am gone.

I mentioned this Scottish . 577 before for long range shooting stags , 36” barrel , the balls and mini bullets in my hand are great brutal things for a human to be blasted with, terrible injuries a soldier could look forward to, plenty of images of war wounds on google , a •308 looks a gentle bullet in comparison .

The other oddity was a pair of 1885 Westley Richards BP barrels 1885, Metford riffling converted back to percussion I don’t have a bullet mould as yet, but I must see how it shoots with round balls,

Not feeling great today after Tuesdays immutherapy infusion keeping 4 tumours under control. Keeps me alive for years to come Ha ha just sitting in under the shade reading my favourite ML comments. Not up to archery today It will pass I sit in hope that a tiger has escaped from the local Zoo, but that puts me in India, not Africa well Nigeria. Where my kids grew up , ok 3 years 4 ton7 , pigeon keeps me company not to mention my fox

Still got a bit of ££££$$ put aside for my gunny hobby at 81. Been collecting bullets moulds on eBay uk, kids can sell them on when I am gone.

I mentioned this Scottish . 577 before for long range shooting stags , 36” barrel , the balls and mini bullets in my hand are great brutal things for a human to be blasted with, terrible injuries a soldier could look forward to, plenty of images of war wounds on google , a •308 looks a gentle bullet in comparison .

The other oddity was a pair of 1885 Westley Richards BP barrels 1885, Metford riffling converted back to percussion I don’t have a bullet mould as yet, but I must see how it shoots with round balls,

I must again apologise my comment turned out a bit of a muddle, too late to correct it

However I was surprised the big .490 ball only weighs in at 177 gr. ‘yet it’s no heavier than a .36 175gr Sierra bullet ???? For my little .36. Ml. !!!????

 

[JDBraddy]

Some maths...

Round is at once the most stable shape (hence the musket), and it has the worst ballistic coefficient possible. It literally ploughs the air and creates a massive, turbulent vacuum behind it slowing it down. That said, the transition between supersonic and sub sonic (transonic) doesn't affect it like it does a conical, bullet-shaped, bullet.

Don't forget, that despite 177gr weight of a .490 RPB it has HALF the BC of a 35gr .22lr. With a muzzle velocity of 1450 it will go sub sonic @ 60 yards.

A 47gr .32 RPB moving 1450fps at the muzzle goes sub sonic at 40yds! That's also a "full charge" that most of us don't use except when hunting and needing down range energy (as the turkey anecdote points out).

They drop like stones, so if you want to actually shoot "long range" (over 100yds IMHO) a .50 RPB is a sub caliber. The larger muskets (despite being smooth bores) are the ones that will do it.

It seems to me that before Monsieur Minié's invention they were getting bigger and bigger for military use.... If it's gona be a ball all you can really do is go bigger.

That said, LOVE shooting my .32 SMR at 25yd steel. Heaven!

The club where I shoot restricts the matches to the use of PRB's, no conical bullets allowed.

 

[Gordoncourtney]

The club where I shoot restricts the matches to the use of PRB's, no conical bullets allowed.

I gave local club away as they would not let me shoot my compound bow, too dangerous. . Only recurved bows allowed . So i shoot recurved bow in my 100 yd garden. Just moved target to 50 yards and lost three arrows in undergrowth , i was ok at 40 yards enjoy

 

[Nav]

Lol. My club has combat pits where you can draw and move and fire (the big one they regularly host matches). The BP range looks like Hickock45s back yard, and they have a full sized rearing grizzly bear @50yards. Full auto is perfectly acceptable even on the utility rifle ranges. You can't draw from a holster on the utility ranges, but it's a concrete deck. There are no "stupid" rules, but a few I don't like.

The only thing you can't do on the static or walking, 3D archery ranges is use (even have) broadheads, but the targets are pretty spendy, so it makes sense field points only.

 

[smoothshooter]

My grandfather, 1892-1980 returned from WW-I and bought a lever action chambered in .32WCF a black-powder cartridge also known as the .32-20 which I'm told means 32 caliber, and 20 grains of black powder.

I know this rifle harvested literally hundreds of deer, coyotes, cougars, even a bear or two over the next six decades.

Perhapse I'm wrong, but would imagine a .32 caliber muzzle stuffer should be capable of similar performance.

Don't hear of a lot of historical references to.32 caliber muzzle loaders. I'm sure they existed, but doubt they where that common.

Many call .32 calibers Crockett rifles, though I've read that "Ol Betsy" on display at the Alamo is actually a .40 caliber. And Daniel Boons "Tick-Licker" was a .44 caliber.

Would not put much stock in any surviving gun having ever belonged to Boone. He was known to have owned many rifles and smoothbores, and bought and sold them in a couple of taverns and trading posts he owned.

 

[ETipp]

I believe practice is the biggest determining factor to improve shooting.

The most expensive component is lead....
32 caliber: (.310) 048g---approx 146 balls/pound
36 caliber: (.360) 071g----approx 98 balls/pound
40 caliber: (.395) 092g----approx 76 balls/pound
45 caliber: (.445) 133g----approx 52 balls/pound
50 caliber: (.498) 180g----approx 38 balls/pound
54 caliber: (.535) 220g----approx 32 balls/pound

Next is powder.... don't know what charge you use but for my guns.

.50 cal = 70gr/shot
.45 cal = 50gr/shot
.40 cal = 30gr/shot
.32 cal = 20gr/shot

Next is caps....this is a wash and doesn't vary by caliber. Of course you could use a flintlock.

So for what it would cost to fire 30 rounds in practice with a .54 cal.
One could fire 70+ rounds in practice with a .40 cal. Or 120+ rounds in practice with a .32cal.

This is one of my main reasons for choosing a .32 for squirrel hunting. Very economical as well as less report out in the woods. Very accurate out to normal squirrel hunting distances.