Can confirm - most over-ball lube goes away

[glw]

Took my Pietta Remington New Model Army out shooting last Sunday and came away with an observation. But first, the setup...

I got to the farm and realized that I was out of felt wads. I did have a tube of Bore Butter though so I figured I'd top the balls with that.

I topped each cylinder with the bore butter and then remembered something that I had read here: that after a couple of shots, the hot gasses have melted away most of the lube from the other cylinders. So after the second shot, I decided to check.

I used my phone in selfie-mode to check the fronts of the cylinders and yes indeed, much of the bore butter was gone. Not all of it, but it was considerably eroded from the other cylinders that I could see. There was still some left but most of it was gone.

Bore butter seems pretty runny for this purpose; I'd wonder that it might turn liquid if it was really hot outside. So this behavior is to be expected I guess but it's all I had. I can see now why they sell wax plugs for this.

But, it's interesting to confirm the observations of others.

 

[cynthialee]

I have found that a single drop of 10w-30 motor oil on top of each ball works well, without making a massive grease mess.
{yes I know it is a petrol product, but I haven't had any issues, it is a total of 6 drops, one for each chamber, not really enough to gum things up}

 

[M. De Land]

The problem with the petroleum use is the carbon fouling it produces which when baked on is harder than lead to remove from a bore when it gets built up.
Standard soap an water cleaning won't even put a dent in it once it begins to build.
It also can be very hard to detect as the bore will appear shiny and often requires a bore scope to find.
I generally use Gunzilla and JB paste on a tight patch to get out carbon and lead fouling.
I'm quite certain that is what keeps the JB patches coming out black long after the bore looks perfectly clean.
If you have ever had a gas engine apart and examined the head you will be looking at burned on carbon from petroleum combustion.

 

[mooman76]

I can attest that CBB does get pretty runny in the heat. It doesn't turn quite to liquid although it may if gotten hot enough. It get's pretty hot here.

 

[wolfundrabe]

Yes Bore Butter is to thin to be ideal to top off your chambers, but it will serve the purpose of aiding in keeping the fouling soft enough to clean up. Even though it probably made a mess of it's own.

It saved you range session anyway and filled in good enough to keep you going. Sometime we just have to use what we have.

 

[smoothshooter]

If you dispense with the grease over the chambers and use PROPERLY lubed wads between the powder and ball you may never lube the chamber mouths again.
Easier, simpler, and no mess.
You will know when you have enough grease in your wads when you start to see a slight " lube star " forming at the muzzle after a few shots.
Wad size or even shape is not all that critical as long as they will go into the chambers and hold enough lube.
Have put around 175 to 200 rounds through the Uberti 1851 in this week alone in two days' shooting. I do no cleaning while shooting except to wipe the inside curve of the hammer where it contacts the frame with some saliva on my little finger every 30 shots or so to keep the fouling down a little.
I do give it a pretty thorough cleaning after about a hundred rounds because by that time I am usually done for the day. The fouling in the barrel does not appear to get any dirtier after about the 6th shot.
This is with Schuetzen FFFG and CCI caps.

 

[Blizzard of '93]

BB is patch lube or conical lube good stuff w,/in it's limits. TC used to make a thicker wax based lube for revolvers. Not sure it's currently made as I've been making mine for years.
3 parts toilet ring 1 part lanolin or bear grease I suppose unsalted lard would do as well.
Have to carefully melt and stir well. Stiff when real cold so have to carry inside vest or coat until needed. Won't blow off if smeared on firmly. Lil dab will do ya.

 

[Billnpatti]

Not being a heavy shooter of revolvers, I have not seen any of the wax plugs. Do they go on top of the powder or on top of the ball? Do you know what they are made of? Are they pure bees wax or do they have something else in them. Maybe they are not bees wax or contain no bees wax. I don't know :idunno: I have never seen any. Do you think pure bees wax melted and poured into a shallow pan to cool and then cut out the plugs with a hollow punch would produce good wax plugs? Should I add any paraffin? Inquiring minds want to know. :hmm:

 

[Kansas Jake]

I made up a bunch of felt wads that I soaked with a mixture of lard, bees wax, and paraffin. I saw a recipe on another site a while back. The wads I punched out with a set of cheap hole punches from Harbor Freight. The recipe called for lamb tallow, but I couldn't find any locally. I think the gentleman that did the original recipe was named Galifeo or something similar.

I put the wads over the powder in my C & B revolver. If I remember right the punch was a 15/16 that I opened up with a dremel to .450 +-.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I've been using very lightly lubed paper wads for several years now. They work every bit as well as the felt wads, and a roll of 2 ply makes a lot of wads for very little cost.

 

[wolfundrabe]

Referred to often as Gatofeo's Lube, or Gatofeo No. 1

Gatofeo does not claim to have "Invented" the recipie, but simply posted on another forum that he found it in an old 1943 American Rifleman article and that he used it with great success. From there the excellent recipe has grown to urban legend status.

 

[Kansas Jake]

Thanks for the correction on the spelling of his name. I think the stuff would make a reasonable patch lube too, but have not tried it for that yet.

 

[Heelerau]

I agree with smooth shooter, having been shooting cap and balls since about 1972, a couple of years ago finally got the idea of using lubed felt wads. I am a fairly slow and deliberate thinker it would seem. I just soak a section of 1/8 hard felt in my minnie lube pot, (5 parts by volume beeswax to 1 part by volume unsalted lard) and it works a treat. I did dabble in cowboy action for a year or so, and with the number of shots through both my old colt navy and 3rd Mod Dragoon, no fouling and no mess. I had been using water pump grease for 30+ odd years and suffered the mess. The only build up is on the arc of the hammer.

 

[ccmountainman]

bore butter really isn't meant to be used over the ball. More for patches like in rifles and single shots.
Over the ball lube to prevent chain fires, is really a carry over fallacy.
Generally started during the ACW. Many soldiers, had moulds that were undersized, and they picked up spent rounds from the ground, and reused them.
Yes factory ordnance was used but sometimes even there the wrong size got used or were inadvertently cast undersized.
Plus when they were bulk loading from a flask in a hurry excess powder on face.
And of course the oops no ball.
Those were the main things that lead to the lube over ball (yes I know Colonel Colt even recommended it). But it is still a fallacy, especially with todays tighter manufacturing standards. and legal issues.
If your chambers are in good cylindrical shape, not cracked or porous from one to another, and you shave a good ring all around when seating, the odds would be astronomical a spark could get past the ball.
One good thing about over ball lube is yes some may get pushed into the bore to help keep fouling soft from a previous shot.
But BB is actually too soft for this especially on hot days.
The old CVA patch grease was good but no longer made.
Best bet is to make your own.
I make paper cartridges, and use mostly conical these days. I want the extra impact force of the heavier bullet. the conical have lube grooves, so lubed that way. otherwise a wad sry or lubed.
My normal target is a chunk of 4x4 wood standing on end like a fence post and anchored so it don't move.
Give me only 3 1/2" of width to hit. I hit more, much more than I miss at 20 yd. So I am happy. Considering a person is roughly 18" across.
And that is what guns are about. Shooting at and hitting your enemy. Not a paper target.
And if motor oil is working for you, use it.
I have two 35+ year old Navy Arms 1858 NMA 8 inchers. I have never had a chain fire and I don't use over ball lude at all.
And my guns are very easy to clean, with no leading.

Besides through the 1800's when revolvers (C&B) were becoming popular, if chain fires were really that common place. there would be articles on it, news clippings, complaints to Colt and Remington and the other makers.

 

[nkbj]

All of which proves there's more than one way to skin a cat. Try both in any particular revolver to see what it prefers and what you prefer.
By the way, the spongy pressed paper material used in making some egg cartons can work good too for punched and soaked wads.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

For years I used a hi temp grease from blue and gray called pistol patch. It does not melt on firing although the gases of an adjacent chamber firing will blow some excess away.

I ran out of pistol patch and now use bulk white lithium grease from the auto parts store.

Of course low melting temp substances will melt away. Crisco was used for years and melted in warm weather. Then about 1960's many folks used high temp fibered water pump grease with less melting problems. Then other high temp greases became available, even synthetics. Kind of pointless to try a square wheel and announce that it does not work to full expectations.

 

[George]

Besides through the 1800's when revolvers (C&B) were becoming popular, if chain fires were really that common place. there would be articles on it, news clippings, complaints to Colt and Remington and the other makers.

In 1853 Sam Colt wrote about the problem of chain fires he encountered while developing the rotating-cylinder firearms.

On the Application of Machinery to the Manufacture of Rotating Chambered-Breech Fire-Arms and their Peculiarities, Colonel Samuel Colt, 1853

The arms so constructed, consisting of a large number of pieces, and assembled in a complicated manner, were soon found to possess many practical disadvantages, arising chiefly from the wish of the Author to construct compact and good looking weapons. His original experiments had all been made on skeleton arms, solely with a view to utility, and in them there was not the liability to premature explosion, from the escape of fire at the mouth of the chamber, or by the inter-communication of the ignited detonating caps ; but when he enclosed the rear, and the mouths of the rotating chambers, the fire, being confined beneath the shield and the cap, was communicated successively to the percussion caps, and in front was conveyed into the chambers, so that premature and simultaneous explosion of the charges necessarily took place.
In consequence of these premature explosions, it became necessary to remove the shield, from over the base of the chambers, and to introduce partitions, between the nipples, or cones, to prevent the fire from spreading to and exploding the adjoining caps ; but this only partially accomplished the object. There still remained risk of explosion from the spreading of the fire laterally between the base of the barrel and the face of the chamber. To meet this danger, the metal plate which was attached to the barrel, and projected over the chambers, was removed; this obviated to a certain extent, but did not altogether prevent the simultaneous explosion of the charges; for during a trial of the arm, by order of the American Government* an accident occurred, from the simultaneous explosion of two chambers, which induced the Author, after much reflection to give a slight chamfer,or bevil to the orifice of each chamber, so as to deflect, or throw off at an outward angle, the fire which expanded laterally across their months. The reason for this alteration was, that when the lateral fire met the rectangular edge of the orifice of the chambers, the angle of incidence being equal to the angle of reflection, the fire was conducted downwards, or inwards to the charge; but when the flame struck the chamfered edge, it was directed outwards away from the charge. This action is shown in wood cut (Fig. l), and unimportant as this alteration may appear, it has proved so effectual, that if loose powder is placed over the charge, in the adjoining chambers, it is not now ignited when the pistol is discharged. These and other improvements have brought the fire arm to its present safe and effective condition, and the Author believes, that no casualty can occur, nor that more than one charge can be fired at one time, if the metal is sound and the arm is properly loaded.

Spence

 

[crockett]

That recipe was also mentioned by Elmer Keith in his book, Six Guns, about a 50/50 mix. Soaked the wads in melted lube and when it hardened cut them out.
I really like using the pre-lubed wads. On the grease in the end of the cylinder, the Robert E. Lee Colt 1851 was reportedly filled with a "red wax". I've wondered if Lee loaded the gun and then just used the same red sealing wax used to seal envelopes with orders. In any event a different material than Crisco that melts off after a few shots.
On the lube over the ends of the chambers. Is that pc or a modern day replica shooting thing?

 

[m-g willy]

Try shooting with no lube.
I only put lube on every 5-6th cylinder of shooting.
Another way is to only lube the first chamber to be fired in each cylinder.

 

[glw]

I should have mentioned that I did notice one other thing. What with so much excess of Bore Butter, the gun was super easy to clean afterwards. In fact, it wasn't even as dirty as it usually is. Cleanup was done in half the time.

Still... gonna go make some wads.