Lube wad over ball?

[Dave Markowitz]

Then here comes Skeeter Skelton saying that the Confederate vets he shot Colt Navies with used felt wads under the ball. So it's at least been done since the 1930s. He never clarified if these guys used wads during the war, I'm gonna say likely not.

Elmer Keith, not Skeeter Skelton.

See Sixguns by Keith.

 

[Stantheman86]

The Yellow Traditions Wads are useless, no wonder they're on sale at Midway. I used them in the past and today, and they didn't do anything to mitigate fouling

The gray wool wads worked way better

This store on Ebay sells wool wads for a good price. 1,000 wads is probably a 2 year supply for some people. It may be more convenient to pay 60 bucks than punch out wool discs and lube them

 

[Stantheman86]

Elmer Keith, not Skeeter Skelton.

See Sixguns by Keith.

I get the old gun gurus mixed up a lot

 

[Stantheman86]

Felt wads do not have enough mass to interfere with the bullet’s travel down the bore when loaded on top of the bullet.
Put them under the ball where they belong and don’t worry about it.
Make them yourself and it will cut your shooting costs by at least a third.

I get 1,000 off Ebay for less than I spent on McDonalds this week, and the Wool wads I posted above keep the guns going through 10+ cylinders before they need a quick wipeout

 

[Ed C.]

The stuff I have is premixed from Hobby Lobby but I will try a different recipe. Thanks

I also use olive oil...1:1 mix with beeswax soaked into a 1/8" felt wad. In the Florida heat they will get soft but never runny.

 

[barnettshale]

A lubed felt wad does not have enough mass to have any effect as a bore obstruction.

Beg to differ. My granddaughter loaded her Colt Army using a wad under the balls in her first cylinder full. First round fired locked up the cylinder. When I removed the barrel found the wad peeking out of the chamber turned sideways. When questioned found out that’s how she loaded it “sideways “ because it was easier that way. I had always done the loading previously so this was her first solo attempt. Definitely a learning experience. She was 20 at the time.

 

[smoothshooter]

Beg to differ. My granddaughter loaded her Colt Army using a wad under the balls in her first cylinder full. First round fired locked up the cylinder. When I removed the barrel found the wad peeking out of the chamber turned sideways. When questioned found out that’s how she loaded it “sideways “ because it was easier that way. I had always done the loading previously so this was her first solo attempt. Definitely a learning experience. She was 20 at the time.

I have loaded greased wads turned sideways on purpose under the balls at least 50 times for experimentation with no negative results.
I have used square wads, triangular wads, .36 wads in .44 chambers, etc.
No problems yet.
You cannot damage a percussion revolver with any kind of wad or projectile as long as black powder is used UNLESS YOU STICK A BALL IN THE BARREL AND THEN FIRE ANOTHER ONE BEFORE CLEARING THE STUCK BALL FIRST. Even in a case like that, the barrel will not split, and you may not even get a dog.knot bulge.

 

[smoothshooter]

Ok so I’m glad I had a senior moment and forgot the round balls to shoot at the range. You guys know a lot more about BP stuff than yours truly so under the ball it will go. The reason I was investigating is because I noticed that the chambers loaded with my home made wads with beeswax and coconut oil partially weakened the charge when fired. The powder has to have been contaminated by the lightly lubed wads I made. I read about punching discs out of a waxed milk carton to isolate the powder from contamination. I haven’t noticed that happening with the commercially made wads I have which appear to be much dryer.

If you cut back the percentage of coconut oil in your grease mix you will be just fine.

 

[smoothshooter]

Beg to differ. My granddaughter loaded her Colt Army using a wad under the balls in her first cylinder full. First round fired locked up the cylinder. When I removed the barrel found the wad peeking out of the chamber turned sideways. When questioned found out that’s how she loaded it “sideways “ because it was easier that way. I had always done the loading previously so this was her first solo attempt. Definitely a learning experience. She was 20 at the time.

I stand by my statement. There is no way possible for that wad to cause any bore obstruction problem. It is not heavy enough.
If you put a piece of masking tape across the muzzle of the gun it will be blown away by the air traveling ahead of the ball as it accelerates down the bore with no damage to gun or shooter.
Why wouldn’t a wad in the bore from a previous shot not behave the same?

 

[ernbar]

If you cut back the percentage of coconut oil in your grease mix you will be just fine.

Wish I could but it’s pre mixed from Hobby Lobby. Suppose I can add more wax to change the oil ratio?

 

[Drain_Bamage]

Wish I could but it’s pre mixed from Hobby Lobby. Suppose I can add more wax to change the oil ratio?

You sure enough can! Just scoop it out of the container into some sort of simple makeshift double boiler (you don't want to scorch the constitutes) and add your wax until it hits a consistency you like. This may take a few iterations as you'll probably want to let it cool for testing, but go slow, take your time, and you'll get it.

 

[smoothshooter]

Wish I could but it’s pre mixed from Hobby Lobby. Suppose I can add more wax to change the oil ratio?

Yes.

 

[Bunk]

lube wad under the ball, as I understand it,works like this.
The heat of powder combustion vaporizes some of the lube and helps to soften the fouling.
As a test using an 1860 Army each chamber was loaded with 25 grains of FFFg and a .451" ball was seated. All six chambers were packed with SPG on top of the ball.
The cylinder was removed after each shot the following was observed.
On the first shot the chambers on both side of the fired chamber had only a very small amount of SPG remaining, the others show some loss. After that each shot showed the following chamber appeared the same as the first shot.
My conclusion after firing and cleaning was there was lube spattered all over the frame tht was undesirable. Cleaning the bore showed on discernible difference than the usual wad under the ball.
Admittedly I started out with lard or tallow over the ball on my original 1851 Colt Navy in the early 50's but that was all we knew then.
Better ways are available now.
Respectful submitted
Bunk

 

[smoothshooter]

lube wad under the ball, as I understand it,works like this.
The heat of powder combustion vaporizes some of the lube and helps to soften the fouling.
As a test using an 1860 Army each chamber was loaded with 25 grains of FFFg and a .451" ball was seated. All six chambers were packed with SPG on top of the ball.
The cylinder was removed after each shot the following was observed.
On the first shot the chambers on both side of the fired chamber had only a very small amount of SPG remaining, the others show some loss. After that each shot showed the following chamber appeared the same as the first shot.
My conclusion after firing and cleaning was there was lube spattered all over the frame tht was undesirable. Cleaning the bore showed on discernible difference than the usual wad under the ball.
Admittedly I started out with lard or tallow over the ball on my original 1851 Colt Navy in the early 50's but that was all we knew then.
Better ways are available now.
Respectful submitted
Bunk

 

[smoothshooter]

Your experience is similar to mine in the early 1970’s when I was a teenager.
I gave up shooting percussion revolvers in the mid 1970’s because of the grease mess that would cover the outside of the gun and get in my holster after shooting a target, or rabbit or groundhog if I did not also carry a wipe rag on me to clean the gun off after a shot.
I had been brainwashed by so called experts who vociferously declared that smearing grease over the chambers was the only way to avoid the” dreaded “ chain-fire.
About 20-some years later, upon further thought mixed with some research, I figured out the the so-called experts had no historical basis at all for the greasing. They were only repeating what other marginally knowledgeable shooters in modern times told them. I also knew there were no known contemporary references, written or verbal, that mentioned percussion revolver carriers ever carrying tins of grease with them for lubing revolver chambers.
So, being the practical sort, I took up shooting percussion revolvers again. A LOT. With 5 or 6 guns, using only greased wads between powder and ball, or sometimes no wads at all. No grease over chambers.
20 years and thousands of rounds later, no chain-fires or bore obstruction damage to any barrels from wads-nothing. And the outside of the guns and my holsters stayed much cleaner.

 

[barnettshale]

I stand by my statement. There is no way possible for that wad to cause any bore obstruction problem. It is not heavy enough.
If you put a piece of masking tape across the muzzle of the gun it will be blown away by the air traveling ahead of the ball as it accelerates down the bore with no damage to gun or shooter.
Why wouldn’t a wad in the bore from a previous shot not behave the same?

My comments relate to the fact the revolver locked up. Was unable for rotate the cylinder. Wasn’t worried about it as an obstruction. Required disassembly to remove and continue firing.

 

[nkbj]

Finding out if wads under hollow base ball are detrimental to accuracy could be a fun study. I never used wads with hollow based bullets in .36's but now I'm working on a .44 design that they mite be worth looking at. Having a .44 base full of lube would be useful if you could get some of it atomized into the column of flame but not damping your powder ahead of time. A pressed paper (egg carton) wad dipped in a beeswax lube maybe, to let it behave as a diaphragm to drive forward and apply hydraulic pressure to the thinner lube within the skirt. A waxed paper wad (heavy like construction paper) would perhaps be more frangible and work better.
I'm designing a modification to Pietta chambers to put a .451" diameter x 3/8" long anterior section for the bullets to seat in before swaging into the original .447". Ideally the bullets would have a .454" or so front end that shears on the .451" mouth as the tail end swages into the original .447". The shallow hollow base would expand to .451" before exiting the chamber. The same chamber design would also work well with both .457"round ball and any nominally .45 caliber molds producing bullets (sized to .450"), most designs* being more than long enough to swage into the original .447" chamber. For the .450" diameter bullets either lube in front or lubed wads would probably work OK the same as with round ball.


*

 

[Johnny Tremain]

Been using powder/wad/ball for several outings now. The 454 balls fit good.
All this goo is modern use for ill fitting ball.

Make my own round ball, and wads. They dont cost that much.

 

[Pete453]

I'm designing a modification to Pietta chambers to put a .451" diameter x 3/8" long anterior section for the bullets to seat in before swaging into the original .447". Ideally the bullets would have a .454" or so front end that shears on the .451" mouth as the tail end swages into the original .447". The shallow hollow base would expand to .451" before exiting the chamber

A friend used to fill the hollow bases of his Minies for a Muskegon for deer hunt, he said they made great tracers! I've seen it too!

Nkbj, I'm not understanding the reason you would want to swage your bullets down to. 447, then hope they expand back to. 451? Why do that when you have a.454 nose to seat them tight? I guess I'm not picking up what you're putting down.

 

[Secesh]

I’m gonna turn this thread around and admit I don’t use lube under the ball or on top of it. Powder, cream of wheat and ball for targets. Powder and a ball for everything else. It’s messy already without making everything slimy with lube. Don’t be bashing me over those nasty chainfires without lube. Shoot almost every day or at least weekly for 30+ years. Never a chain fire. Over sized ball that shaves a ring and tight fitting caps. Zero chainfires.

Although I haven’t shot cap & ballers quite as much as you have, I agree. If a good, uniformly sized ring is cut from the balls when they are loaded I can’t see why grease over the ball is worth the effort. The balls are sealing the powder charge very well but you have to get that consistent ring from the ball for it to work.