Can someone who is knowledgeable Please help?

[Hoggreed]

Hi everyone, this was given to me and I was trying to do some research on it but I can’t find anything. It’s obviously a left handed flint lock muzzle loader...that’s as far as I’ve gotten! It also seems to have a very small area where you put your fingers...could it have been made for a woman? Or just a small man? I would appreciate any information on what y’all think? Old? New? Handmade? Seen it before?

 

[RoaringBull]

Welcome to the forum.

First, thats a caplock rifle.

Looks like a custom or kit rifle. I seem to recall a "Grizz" on several of the web forums. Perhaps more knowledgeable folks will chime in.

Are there any marks or writing on the barrel?

 

[Coot]

It appears to be a recently made percussion (not flintlock) rifle. The trigger guard looks normal - it is intended that fingers (excepting the trigger finger) go around & not under the triggerguard. Does the barrel have any markings? Often builders put their name on the barrel. If there are small stampings on the barrel (need photos) they may be proof marks which would tell us in which country the gun was made (the USA does not proof guns so no proof marks = likely US made. The Griz engraving on the sideplate may be a builders mark (that I know nothing about) or put there for an owner.

 

[tenngun]

Today many rifles have a ‘pistol grip’ style on the buttstock. A brass trigger guard was made to serve that function
It looks to be new made, I might hazard 1980s. Left handed guns were rare in the old days. General styling is 1830ish but it’s a general type instead of a copy. Guns that looked similar were made for trade to Indians and whites who wanted an enexpensive working gun.

 

[Hoggreed]

Thank you so much for the information you guys....really helpful!

 

[Cowboy]

Grizz was, and still is a pretty common nickname or persona name in the black powder world.

The rifle looks to be a 1980’s-1990’s build my friend.

As others have already stated. It has a percussion lock rather than a flintlock. To fire the rifle you’d need( #11 percussion caps ).

Secondly and most importantly!! NEVER USE MODERN POWDER!! Only use black powder or black powder substitute’s such as pyrodex or Triple 7 to name a few?

Do not know your experience level with shooting traditional muzzleloader’s? Best advice I could give is to hang around here on the forum and ask plenty of questions prior to trying if you’re new at it.

Respectfully, Cowboy

 

[Hoggreed]

Grizz was, and still is a pretty common nickname or persona name in the black powder world.

The rifle looks to be a 1980’s-1990’s build my friend.

As others have already stated. It has a percussion lock rather than a flintlock. To fire the rifle you’d need( #11 percussion caps ).

Secondly and most importantly!! NEVER USE MODERN POWDER!! Only use black powder or black powder substitute’s such as pyrodex or Triple 7 to name a few?

Do not know your experience level with shooting traditional muzzleloader’s? Best advice I could give is to hang around here on the forum and ask plenty of questions prior to trying if you’re new at it.

Respectfully, Cowboy

Thank you for your knowledge and I will absolutely take your advice!

 

[Hoggreed]

Welcome to the forum.

First, thats a caplock rifle.

Looks like a custom or kit rifle. I seem to recall a "Grizz" on several of the web forums. Perhaps more knowledgeable folks will chime in.

Are there any marks or writing on the barrel?

Unfortunately, there are no marks or writing anywhere on the barrel

 

[SDSmlf]

Hi everyone, this was given to me and I was trying to do some research on it but I can’t find anything.

Have you confirmed the gun was not left loaded by the previous owner?

 

[Griz44Mag]

Let us know where you are. Finish your profile.
Chances are good you are close to one of the members here that would be delighted to meet up with you and get you up to speed and taking care of and shooting your new (to you) black powder rifle..

 

[EC121]

Contemporary rifle. To me the acorns on the sideplate date it to the 70s or 80s. The name on the sideplate looks like a stamp. The owner would had to have a stamp made for his name on likely the one rifle or the builder used one as a trademark on the softer brass of the sideplate to avoid the harder steel of the barrel.. If the builder engraved the gun himself, he should have been able to engrave his name on the barrel. It is possible that the builder had someone else do the engraving. That looks like a LH Siler caplock. The straight grip rail on the guard is normal. The fingers go on the outside.

 

[toot]

good advise.

 

[renegadehunter]

Unfortunately, there are no marks or writing anywhere on the barrel

I didn't see it mentioned, have you checked under the barrel for maker marks?
Many times there are marks that aren't visible until the barrel is removed from the stock. It looks like a hook style breech, so all you have to do is remove the wedge pin that is at the fore grip (where the left handed shooter's right hand would hold the rifle), remove the ram rod, and then lift up on the muzzle end of the barrel (the dangerous end). To remove the wedge pin just tap it out lightly with a non-marring punch and light taps from a hammer.
I don't know your gun knowledge, so hope I didn't offend with the above.

 

[user 48679]

Have you confirmed the gun was not left loaded by the previous owner?

This should be the first thing done when coon-fingering a frontstuffer for the first time !

I may be preaching to the choir, but it's a simple task.

Run the ramrod downbore until it stops, and make a mark on it where it emerges from the muzzle

Withdraw the RR from the bore and lay it along the barrel with the mark also at the muzzle.

Compare the RR's rear end location to the location of the ignition channel.

If the difference is anything larger than marginal, it's likely something's in there.

If it's loaded, the charge can be removed by either pulling the projectile out through the muzzle or by using a CO2 discharge through the nipple.

 

[TFoley]

The 'GRIZZ' and the paw logo are stamped, not engraved - easy to see if you enlarge the image enough. The other markings approximating to acorns are very crudely graved in.

 

[Notchy Bob]

As the last couple of posts suggested, you do want to make sure the rifle is unloaded. First thing.

That's actually a pretty nice rifle, I would say probably built by a talented amateur. The wood is beautiful, and the inletting is very good. There are a few things I don't think you would see on a real professional build... The orientation of the patch box is at a funny angle, for example. Also, the oversized and over decorated side plate would not have come out of a really professional shop. As brother Cowboy pointed out, "Grizz" is a very common nickname or alias in the buckskinner crowd, so that may not help much with identification. Unless the builder is well recognized, a late 20th-early 21st century rifle like this will not bring much on the resale market.

However, Siler locks, like this one, are excellent. The wood is first-rate, and apart from a couple of little quirks as noted in the previous paragraph, the rifle looks solidly built. I would be surprised if any builder would combine a lock and stock like that with anything but a good quality barrel. As mentioned in one of the posts above, there may be some markings on the underside of the barrel, concealed by the stock. That should give you an idea of who made the barrel, and its bore size. The point of all of this is that your rifle should be a shooter! I don't think it's value would be diminished by shooting it, provided it is properly cleaned after each shooting session, and stored properly in between. It could very well become a favorite of a left-handed shooter who wants something of a little better quality than the average import, without investing in a new custom build.

I would recommend that you verify that the rifle is unloaded, as Pietro described, then carefully dismount the barrel. Look all over the outside of it with a magnifying glass. Lift the lid of the patch box and look inside, and remove the butt plate and look under it. Builders sometimes leave little written "surprises" or identifying marks in those places. You might also look in the barrel channel of the stock, to see if anything is written there. Report back with your findings and let's see if we can piece together a little more of this interesting rifle's story.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[Kansas Jake]

Several folks have suggested dismounting the barrel to check for marks or signatures underneath. Just a caution. There are barrel pins holding the barrel into the stock. These will have to be driven out with a punch and care will be needed to not damage the stock if they are tight or have not been removed in a long time. You just have to be very careful and go slow if you try to remove them. Also, the screws to the lock plate may also be through the back end (breech plug) part of the stock and need to be removed along with the tang screw before the stock will come free. It is also important to have screw driver blades that fit correctly when removing screws so the heads don't become damaged. You may want to seek out someone with experience with these guns to assist in the teardown if you aren't comfortable doing it yourself.

 

[Hoggreed]

As the last couple of posts suggested, you do want to make sure the rifle is unloaded. First thing.

That's actually a pretty nice rifle, I would say probably built by a talented amateur. The wood is beautiful, and the inletting is very good. There are a few things I don't think you would see on a real professional build... The orientation of the patch box is at a funny angle, for example. Also, the oversized and over decorated side plate would not have come out of a really professional shop. As brother Cowboy pointed out, "Grizz" is a very common nickname or alias in the buckskinner crowd, so that may not help much with identification. Unless the builder is well recognized, a late 20th-early 21st century rifle like this will not bring much on the resale market.

However, Siler locks, like this one, are excellent. The wood is first-rate, and apart from a couple of little quirks as noted in the previous paragraph, the rifle looks solidly built. I would be surprised if any builder would combine a lock and stock like that with anything but a good quality barrel. As mentioned in one of the posts above, there may be some markings on the underside of the barrel, concealed by the stock. That should give you an idea of who made the barrel, and its bore size. The point of all of this is that your rifle should be a shooter! I don't think it's value would be diminished by shooting it, provided it is properly cleaned after each shooting session, and stored properly in between. It could very well become a favorite of a left-handed shooter who wants something of a little better quality than the average import, without investing in a new custom build.

I would recommend that you verify that the rifle is unloaded, as Pietro described, then carefully dismount the barrel. Look all over the outside of it with a magnifying glass. Lift the lid of the patch box and look inside, and remove the butt plate and look under it. Builders sometimes leave little written "surprises" or identifying marks in those places. You might also look in the barrel channel of the stock, to see if anything is written there. Report back with your findings and let's see if we can piece together a little more of this interesting rifle's story.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

I’m sorry for the late response, moving to another state has made life a little crazy! It was super informative and nicely put. When I first got it, I checked to see if it was loaded and it was not...(sorry to everyone else for me not disclosing that first thing) I am indeed new to this world, as I’ve only shot very modern muzzleloaders in the past/present. I just know the basics when it comes to muzzleloaders, and I’m aware about being SAFE and taking all the necessary precautions when working with weapons. Im getting much more familiar with them but yes, I am most definitely an amateur in this world. Thank you again for your response. I will take your advice and do some more inspecting with a magnifying glass. I sure hope it is indeed, a shooter! That would just be amazing. And from what you said it sounds like the chances are high! I will absolutely report back when I get to this little project.

 

[ord sgt]

This rifle appears to be a full stock rifle with a brass nose cap. I see at least two pins holding the barrel along with the tang screw. This makes removing the barrel an involved task, as compared to a half stock rifle with a hooked breech system. If you do decide to remove the barrel from the stock, make sure which pins are for the barrel and not for the thimbles. A small punch is needed and care must be taken to keep the punch centered on the pin. A small slip and you will damage the wood surrounding the pin hole.

 

[Woody Morgan]

"Do you eat grizz, pilgrim?"

- Jeremiah J.

wm