Cap/Nipple Woes

[The Baron]

Hey Guys!

Well, I finally got out in the sunshine today to do some shooting with my T/C New Englander 12ga. However, I ran into a troublesome problem, so I wanted to find out if anyone had experienced the same, or had other info. I was shooting CCI No.11 mag. perc. caps. I started with the nipple that was in the gun (assume a T/C - I bought it used). The first shot was fine. After that, I had several shots where the first strike of the hammer didn't fire the cap. Everytime, it went off perfectly the 2nd try, just by recocking and firing again. I figured since it was consistently firing second try and not first, that the hammer force was OK, but I may not be seating the cap tight enough on the nipple. I tright pushing the cap on hard as I could with my thumb, but same deal. So, I switched the nipple out for a brand new T/C Hotshot and tried again. First shot, went fine first try. then it was same thing - first strike didn't fire the cap, but second went off fine.

Are CCI No. 11 caps slightly small, so possibly not seating tight enough just by thumb pressure? I'll be trying another brand of cap (or two) in hopes it's a cap problem. If not, I won't have a lot of confidence in the gun for my turkey hunting. The gun is new to me and one friend has already nicknamed it "half-time" after today's session(because it fires about half the time :crackup. That's funny and all, but I don't want that name to stick!

The really crazy part is I switched to the .50 cal. barrel, also with the nipple that came with the gun (not a Hotshot - a bit shorter) and had no misfires with the same CCI caps. ::

Any thoughts?

 

[roundball]

Hey Guys!

Well, I finally got out in the sunshine today to do some shooting with my T/C New Englander 12ga. However, I ran into a troublesome problem, so I wanted to find out if anyone had experienced the same, or had other info. I was shooting CCI No.11 mag. perc. caps. I started with the nipple that was in the gun (assume a T/C - I bought it used). The first shot was fine. After that, I had several shots where the first strike of the hammer didn't fire the cap. Everytime, it went off perfectly the 2nd try, just by recocking and firing again. I figured since it was consistently firing second try and not first, that the hammer force was OK, but I may not be seating the cap tight enough on the nipple. I tright pushing the cap on hard as I could with my thumb, but same deal. So, I switched the nipple out for a brand new T/C Hotshot and tried again. First shot, went fine first try. then it was same thing - first strike didn't fire the cap, but second went off fine.

Are CCI No. 11 caps slightly small, so possibly not seating tight enough just by thumb pressure? I'll be trying another brand of cap (or two) in hopes it's a cap problem. If not, I won't have a lot of confidence in the gun for my turkey hunting. The gun is new to me and one friend has already nicknamed it "half-time" after today's session(because it fires about half the time :crackup. That's funny and all, but I don't want that name to stick!

The really crazy part is I switched to the .50 cal. barrel, also with the nipple that came with the gun (not a Hotshot - a bit shorter) and had no misfires with the same CCI caps. ::

Any thoughts?

For what it's worth...I shot a few different TC Hawken percussions all through the 90's with Hot Shot nipples in all of them, using CCI#11 caps, then the CCI#11 Magnums when they came out..never had that problem...so I don't see how it could be a CCI or Hot Shot nipple problem.

My first guess would be your mention of putting them on with your fingers is the problem...not getting them seated fully. I always used a capper for two reasons:
1) To have the firmness and leverage of a mechnical device to seat the nipple all the way down hard on the nipple;
2) To reduce the amount of injury to my fingers in case a cap should accidentally detonate while installing it;

The second ML with factory nipple may have had a slight difference in diameter dimensions that allowed your fingers to seat the cap all the way...dunno...but Hot Shot nipples are outstanding...first thing I did with every TC Hawken I ever got was to throw away the factory nipple and install a Hot Shot.

:m2c:

 

[bearbeater]

hey baron
I had the same problem and I cleaned the fire channel to the chamber and then went to my drill bits 1 thru 80 set. I then selected the next size after the one that fit the factory hole. ie made the hole 1 size larger,. cured the problem but did not know if the cleaning or the sizing did it. I figured a bit larger would not hurt. :m2c: good lick and let us know what worked.
Bearbeater
Oh ya dont do the vinager cleaning trick :crackup:

 

[WV_Hillbilly]

I hope that this makes some sense, 'cause I'm "running on fumes" (only 2 1/2 hrs sleep in the last 48 hrs!)

Swapping out the nipple is usually the easiest fix. Changing cap sizes usually won't help if you can't get the proper fit--they still won't fully seat. So you need to make the nipple fit the caps.

Sometimes the nipple has too much taper--the sides are not parallel to each other--but taper outward towards where it's threaded into the drum/bolster. The cap (even though it does have parallel sides) doesn't seat all the way.

Because of this, the FIRST hammer strike's energy is absorbed by the cap and actually "seats" the rest of the way onto the nipple. The SECOND hammer strike usually sets the cap off nomrally then.

It's a bothersome problem, but you can use a small file and very lighly take off some of the taper of the nipple, so that a cap will seat properly with no trouble.

You shouldn't have "no problemo" getting a replacement nipple for a Thompson Center gun.

Good Luck!
WV_Hillbilly

 

[Zonie]

While your adjusting your nipple cone, you might also want to make sure the lock is well oiled.
It sounds like some of the force of the mainspring is not getting to the end of the hammer indicating it is working hard just to rotate the hammer?
Sometimes the oil doesn't get down to the "axel" of the tumbler because it's hidden behind the hammer from the outside, and the tumbler from the inside.
Try a little extra good gun oil in that area.

 

[Rebel]

Next time you are out try letting the hamer down on the cap and then pushing down hard on the hammer to seat the cap and see if that works. If it does, then your caps aren't seating fully and you probably need to try another nipple or do like someone suggested, and file the taper down on yours.

 

[riarcher]

I've the same problem (but I like it! :
What I found is;
Install the cap, ease the hammer down and push the back side of the hammer with your thumb, and whala,, fires every time.
Without the thumb push, my first are non-firing, but the second is.
Why do I like it? I've never lost a cap in the hunting field and I feel it helps to keep the dampness of a soggy hunt out of the powder. :hmm: :m2c:

 

[The Baron]

roundball - I do have a capper and use it. I was only pushing the cap down with my thumb, because of the problem that came up. I wasn't sure how much downward force I was actually getting with the capper.

I like the idea of pushing down a bit on the hammer to seat the cap - never thought of that and it makes sense. I'm also going to try and open up my lock and give it a good cleaning.

But, perhaps the best try out is I took the nipple off of my old gun, which never had this problem, and have put it on the T/C. If I have the same problem, I'll know it's the hammer spring force and not fit of the cap/nipple.

Thanks for the help, fellas! I'll let y'all know how I make out on my next trip to the range. Hopefully, i can shake of the name "Half Time" and get something more like "Ol' Reliable". :crackup:

Baron

 

[john s mosby]

I had the same problem with the cap not going off the first time but always with the second hit. In my case the number 11 caps were a really tight fit on the nipple cone so I filed just enough off the OD so the cap would fit just snug. That fixed the problem, it fires on the first hit every time now.

 

[popgun]

I had the same problem, changed nipples and problem solved.

Recently it happened again and I discovered a chunk of cap up in the cavity of the hammer.

 

[The Baron]

I just finished removing and cleaning the lock. Didn't see any problems in there - all looked good.

I did notice that the hammer falls just off center on the nipple. That is, when I look straight down from the top of the gun, onto the nipple while the hammer is down, the nipple is to one side of the hammer face recess. I don't see a way to fix this, and I'm not sure if this could be contributing to my firing troubles? I can press in on the side of the hammer and make it line up on center of the nipple while I keep pressure on it, but relaxes back out (away from the line of the barrel) when I let off.

Also, I noticed the CCI 11 caps don't snug down onto the Hotshot nipple. I'd rather not get into filing the nipple's OD, so I'll pick up another brand of cap first, and see if they are large enough to cure the trouble. Are all caps exactly the same dimensions, or has anyone out there compared other cap brands side by side for this?

Thanks for all the help.
Baron

 

[silverfox]

The Baron: You say the hammer doesn't hit center? There are about 3 things you can try without major work to try to line it up. (1) Loosen or tighten the lock screw. (2)add shims under the lock plate if :thumbsup: hammer is to close to barrel. (3) See if you can deepen the lock mortise is hammer is away from the barrel side of nipple. If you think the nipple is to large to let the cap seat just put the nipple in your hand drill and with it running at a slow speed sandpaper or file the sides of the nipple down to fit. This is quick and keeps the sides uniform.
Fox :thumbsup:

 

[blackpowder shooter]

wonder if you could take a pair of side cutters and put a slit on one side and open up the nipple, then form to the nipple when putting the cap on the nipple ? :hmm:

 

[Landngroove]

T/C makes a replacement musketcap nipple for its percussion muzzleloaders. I have replaced the standard #11 nipple with this on several of my T/C percussion sidelocks, and they work great. If you use the "top hat" type musket cap, they are easy to fish out of your pocket, due to thier size and the tabs on them, if you need a fast reload. They also produce a much hotter ignition, than a #11. The hammers on the T/C percussion locks, will accomodate the musket cap nipple. An easy swap.

 

[flaming canvas]

Also, I noticed the CCI 11 caps don't snug down onto the Hotshot nipple. I'd rather not get into filing the nipple's OD, so I'll pick up another brand of cap first, and see if they are large enough to cure the trouble. Are all caps exactly the same dimensions, or has anyone out there compared other cap brands side by side for this?

Thanks for all the help.
Baron

Remington caps seem to be a bit larger diameter than CCI.

If it fires the first shot on the first stroke, but after that it won't fire on the first strike you may want to try wiping the outside of the nipple before you cap. If the cone on the nipple barely fits, it wouldn't take much to make it too big.

 

[rayb]

Flaming canvas has a good point. I have a CVA that missfires quite a bit with any cap other than Remington. The Remington caps do seem to be slightly larger diameter. The CCI Mag are a very tight fit and i have occasional misfires with them. The RWS caps I have are almost as big as the Remingtons and generally work ok. I still have to clean up the outside of the nipple to avoid misfires. I also always put the hammer down and push as others have described.

I'm pretty sure the hammer fall is either weak or the hammer is not hitting the nipple square, but that is to be worked on next. For now the Remington caps work for me on this particular gun, most of the time, or at least more so than the other brands. Yes i've changed nipples also. Using Uncle Mike hot shot.


:results:

rayb

 

[The Baron]

Thanks guys! silverfox - I added a wood shim under the bottom edge of the lock plate. This has shifted the hammer face in just enough to line up better on the nipple. I hope to shoot again soon with Remington caps and see how the modifications work. Man - this place is a great resource for me! :master:

 

[CRUSHER DAN]

HAD SAME PROBLEM WITH CCI CAPS IN MY T/C HAWKENS AND IN MY SONS INLINE , CHANGED OVER TO REMINGTON #11 CAPS AIN'T HAD A MISS FIRE SINCE !!!!

 

[Tahquamenon]

I'd try different caps first.

I've fired several thousand RWS Dynamit Nobel #1075 caps for decades on a multitide of rifles (including the New Englander) without ever having one mis-fire unless they were soaking wet.

Also, as a result of using the flawless performance of RS caps, never had a need to use the more expensive hot shot nipples.

http://www.dnrws.com/perc_caps.html

:m2c:

 

[Rebel]

See button to lrft of the letter A on the key board? Push it. You have your caplocks on, and it is considered shouting to use it that way. Just to let you know. Thanks. Take care.