Caps Fire Unreliably

[glw]

I'm new here so be patient...

I did do a search but I didn't find what I was looking for; if one of you magically produce a link I'll gladly read it. Anyway...

I've recently inherited a CVA Kentucky Rifle from a brother-in-law. I've had trouble getting caps to fire.

I bought a tin of CCI #11 and not one of them would snap. A friend with a similar rifle tried them and they didn't fire for him either so I threw them away and went somewhere else to buy more.

I got some CCI magnums. Those fire reliably from his gun but in mine, they only really fire about half the time. I've loaded it and fired it several times lately and if the cap fires, the gun shoots.

Any idea why my hammer won't fire the caps more than half the time? The place that sold me the caps offered to have a look at it if I had trouble so I might go that route but I'd like to try obvious things first.

 

[Little Wattsy]

Its NOT the caps...
It MIGHT be the hammer alignment but most likely its the nipple. Replace it.
If its been dry fired enough it might mushroom out so that the cap isn't seating correctly but caps just don't "not go off" as a rule...

 

[biliff]

Bad fit on the nipple or a battered/mushroomed nipple.
Old piece of cap stuck in the hammer nose.
Weak hammer spring.

There's probably more, but those three seem to be the most likely.

 

[user 922]

I had a similar problem a while back and it was, as Wattsy described, the cap not seating on the nipple. If the nipple appears worn, replace it as Wattsy suggested. Mine was new and what I did was remove it from the gun, chuck it in a drill press (or drill) and carefully sand or file the OD until a cap seats correctly. Be careful you don't remove too much material. You still want the caps to fit snugly.

 

[Zonie]

Welcome to the forum.

The problem may be due to the lock.

Inherited muzzleloaders almost never have had their locks oiled and this is especially true if a Brother-in-law has been involved.

Place the hammer in the half **** position and loosen the lock screw on the left side of the gun just a few turns. (This holds the lock in the mortice).

Then, lightly tap the head of the lock screw with a soft mallet or with the screwdrivers handle to drive it back down against the washer.

That will loosen the lock so after removing the screw the lock should be easy to pull out.

There is a arm that is sticking out at a 90 degree angle to the lockplate. This is the sear that releases the lock do do not push up on it unless you want to release the hammer.

If the inside of the lock is grimy, clean it up with a old toothbrush and a rag.
Then, apply a few drops of oil to the lockplate where the tumbler is located. The tumbler is the thing the mainspring is pushing against and it rotates as the hammer is being raised or is falling.

Oil the other parts too and then wipe it dry with an old rag.

Reinstall the lock into the stock and remember when you tighten the lock screw, it doesn't have to be very tight.
Over-tightening the lock screw can crack the stock and sometimes it will even cause the weak hammer fall that I think your gun is experiencing.

When you get her all oiled up, take a look at the upper end of the nipple.
It should be a nice smooth cone ending at a small flat with a small hole in the middle.

If it looks "mushroomed" a little work with a fine toothed metal cutting file can reshape it.

When you get the time, do as the others have suggested and buy a replacement nipple.

 

[ohio ramrod]

As others have stated it is most likely the nipple that is causing the problem. The end of the nipple should have a sharp knife like edge. Standard CVA nipples were soft and easily "flatened". You should get a replacement. They used a 6mmm-1 nipple on their kentucky's.Yours can be sharpened either of two ways , 1. chuck it in a drill and use a file, or 2. if you have a #2 center drill you can use it to sharpen the nipple from the inside. :idunno:

 

[George T.]

If it fires on the second hammer fall the cap is not seating all of the way. I have done this many times without hurting the nipple threads. Chuck the nipple up in a hand drill and lay a fine flat file against the side on the nipple. You will see the mushroomed area at the top start being removed first. You do not need to remove much. Try a cap now and then. This whole thing should take a couple of minutes once you get the nipple removed. Good luck. Geo. T.

 

[glw]

Wow. I appreciate the many quick responses.

I'm looking at the nipple and it doesn't look very sharp at the edges. To replace it would be an easy and cheap thing to try - I'll head up to the gun store this weekend.

I'll also try chucking the thing in my drill and filing or sanding it a bit.

I've never owned one of these so I don't know how tight the caps need to be or how hard the hammer is supposed to fall. But the caps fit pretty snug and when the hammer drops and one doesn't go off, I have to pry it off with my knife so that suggests I should try sanding on it at least a little.

I'll report back.

 

[mooman76]

Caps need to be snug enough so they won't fall off but need to be able to fit on all the way so when the hammer falls, it hits solid to make the cap fire.

 

[cynthialee]

Chuck and file the nipple and get a new one. Might as well have a spare.

 

[Bill Hall]

Those CVA's have a really light hammer, so I have a feeling it's the light hammer coupled with a not-so-good nipple. Like others have mentioned, if you turn down the cap end of the nipple, just for trouble-shooting purposes, it may solve your problem. Once you've determined a better fitting nipple is in order, you can use your modified nipple to determine the fit of a new replacement nipple.

If a better nipple doesn't solve the problem, you can get a better replacement lock from L and R Lock Co (stronger hammer), but it'll cost ya. If you end up really liking that rifle, I suggest you replace the lock anyway. Those factory locks are crap. Good luck. Bill

 

[Rifleman1776]

Those CVA's have a really light hammer

True. Many of them did have very light strikes and feeble springs.
One 'fix' albiet not a proper gunsmithing technique, was to jam a small piece of leather into the 'V' of the mainspring. At one time I did this frequently and it would make the gun work. Replacement is another approach.

 

[glw]

I haven't taken any action yet since last night but thought I'd throw in one more fact.

When I got the gun, the hammer seemed a bit stiff to pull back and would not lock at the half-**** position. I took it off and discovered that whatever lubricant had been in there had gotten really thick over the decades.

I sprayed it with SeaFoam Deep Creep and got after it with a toothbrush. I then dropped a bit of gun oil in there and wiped off the excess. I did NOT take the entire lock apart so there could perhaps be a bit more crud in there behind things.

Still, the thing worked much better after that - the hammer locked at half-**** and full-**** and it dropped normally.

I had wondered about the mainspring too but don't have much to compare it with. Perhaps joining the local club (Osage Territory Muzzleloaders) would be good too so I that can lay eyes on many different guns and learn the ways of the good ones. I must say though; when my gun fired, it shot straight. I hit every target I pointed at (I was with some family shooting skeet and at the end, I put some clays out on the grass.)

I will try the nipple replacement and also chuck it in my hand drill and file the existing one a bit. You can't have too much experience in this regard (in my opinion).

 

[Billnpatti]

My money is on the nipple as the source of your problem. Simple fix is to replace it with a new one. If you replace your nipple and your gun still doesn't fire reliably, compare the force needed to **** your gun with the force needed to **** your friend's gun. If your gun cocks a lot more easily than your fiend's gun, your problem could be your main spring. Not a strong possibility but a possibility none the less. Another thing to check is whether your hammer is striking squarely on your nipple. To check this, put a light coat of White Out (if it is still available) on your hammer face. Then put a light coat of lipstick on your nipple. Ease your hammer down on your nipple and use something like a wooden mallet or plastic mallet to lightly tap on your hammer to make sure that you get a good impression of the contact with your nipple. Then **** your gun and look at the face of your hammer. If your hammer is making good contact with your nipple, you will have a nice red ring on the face of your hammer. If you see a crescent instead of a ring, your hammer is not striking your nipple squarely. If this is the case, there are remedies for correcting this but they are not for the inexperienced person to try. You will need the help of a gunsmith who is qualified to work on black powder guns.

 

[hanshi]

My problem with an old CVA was similar to what you're experiencing. I removed the nipple, evened up the tip and smoothed it to a nice taper. That, along with holding my mouth just right gave me a very accurate and absolutely dependable rifle.

 

[glw]

Update: I bought and installed a new nipple and it made the difference. But...(there's always a but) the caps are super tight. In fact, I can't push them down enough. The hammer, on first trigger pull, will drop and seat the cap and it will always fire on the second hammer drop.

Grrrr...

 

[Kentuckywindage]

pretty typical. Put them in a drill chuck and use some sand paper or a file and take off a little.

 

[cynthialee]

get the Remington #10 caps, they fit every nipple I have, and fire on first drop of the hammer

 

[glw]

Well, this is an old thread but I have an update.

I happened upon a tin of Remington #11 caps (previously I had CCI). I bought these and tried them out.

They fit perfectly whereas the CCIs had been super tight. Now the gun fires every time.

Now I know.

 

[VEARL]

Can't reuse them. One bang and that is it.
Sorry...couldn't resist. :haha: