Carrying Paper Cartridges Back in the Day?

[sgtski]

Howdy Gang, I have been toying with ideas on carrying paper cartridges for Remmy and for the Son's 51 navy. I know of the pistol cartridge pouch and the pocket carry. (currently we use old issue compass pouches) But when the Vets headed West after the war wear did they carry extra paper ammo in civilian life?
It seems a guy had lot of suff on his belt- a cap pouch, a bullet pouch and powder container of some type or a cap pouch and cartridge pouch (they must had bigger butts back then, I need load bearing suspenders or my kit would be around my ankles).
Same subject different thought anybody got any idea how late paper cartridges were still manufactured commercially?
Any input welcome
Thanks Sgt ski

 

[Russ T Frizzen]

The "ready made" cartridges were sold in packages, often six per pack. Could have been carried in a shirt pocket, but I've never seen any reference to it.

 

[Tkendrick]

This shouldn't surprise any one. References for how people carry ammo are going to be hard to find. Peruse your favorite shooting periodical and see if you can find any reference anywhere as to how the writer is carrying his ammo. My guess it aint going to happen very often.

When doing some research back in the early 70's for an article I was writing, I ran across some documents for a store in Abilene, Kansas. I don't remember the exact numbers, however that guy bought (and presumably sold) a bunch of paper cartridges every year for several years after the war.

My guess it would be a matter of economics vs convenience.

If I was rich, I would throw all my reloading gear in the trash. Some guys enjoy it for a hobby. Personally, I find it to be a very large, time consuming PITA.

But since I like to shoot, and I aint rich, gotta make some compromises.

 

[JackAubrey]

I have not had much joy w/ the combustible cartridges carrying up very well,they seem rather fragile.I went over to using non combustible cartridges.I read it was common practice in Missouri/Kansas to roll your own cartridges that were similiar to musket cartridges,they had to be torn open and poured into the chambers.I have found this to be more robust.Best regards,J.A.

 

[bezoar]

this is a popular topic online.

The colt factory made alot of money in the 1850s, 1860s selling premade cartridges to people. The only price ive ever seen that is documented was an advertisement that gave a price of 120 dollars for 12-1400 rounds of silver foil combustable cartridges.
Lots of other companies made them in the foil, as well as the more rare to find now gutta percha wrappings. Its apparently a fun cartridge collecting specialty.

the union war department has the paper cartridges put into a wood block wrapped in water proof paper or into a card/paper envelope. each gun got 1 cylinder load in each packet. 1860 army got 6 cartridges a packet, etc.

probably best to carry your cartridges in the cartridge pouch,lot safer then loose in a shirt pocket.

 

[Raider2000]

Ofcorse I'm clueless as to how a civilian either Ex-military or otherwise carried extra paper cartridges on their person but one of my projects for this cold months is to make a 12 or 18 hole cartridge pouch to carry paper cartridges to the range.

Thought of just making it out of a block of Oak or even pine & make it just tall enough to make acess to the cartridges easy, then cover it in Leather with a doubble flap.
Maybe even have a spot for a capper too.

 

[crockett]

sgtski: ONE IMPORTANT ISSUE- they are combustible and will ignite if a spark hits them. To my knowledge they were never sold in anything other than a "packet". Originally some/all packets were heavy waxed paper but breakage was a problem so small wood boxes were used. A box was about the size of a deck of playing cards. In any event the word "packet" was still used to describe them- even when in the box.

Colt used a two piece box. The pieces were held together with a waxed label and there was a pull string under the label. By pulling on the string the label was cut in two and the sides of the box opened, part of the label acting like a hinge. Normally six cartridges were in each packet although 5 round packets were made for the small five shot revolvers.

Another major manufacture was Sage, also of Connecticut. Sage used a single piece of wood with six holes and the label covered the holes and once again a pull string ripped open the label so the cartridges could be retrieved. A few of the Sage boxes had a small hole with percussion caps but these were not popular.

There were a few other manufacturers as well. The Richmond Arsenal made some for the South during the war and they had cardboard boxes and breakage was an issue.

One of the Wilson books, Gunfighters of the Old West- The one with the photo of Hickok on the cover. According to the book the town where Hickok was sheriff paid for all his combustible cartridges. Practice ammunition and a lot of it.

BUT, in order to have a combustible cartridge fit in the loading port the originals only had about 17 grains of powder- FFFg. The conical bullets also lacked much of a driving band and could twist out of line as they were seated with the ramrod. Accordingly, the shootist of the day would load up with ball and powder from a flask, maximum charges and keep the combustible ammunition for emergency- fast reloading.

Remember these are combustible, don't have them on a shooting bench, etc.

I put mine in Altoid mint cans and cushion them with tissue paper. If they are going to be stored a while I put a plastic bag over the boxes.

 

[Raider2000]

Very informative crockett, thanx.

I place mine in a small plastic fishing tackle box tray for the range use.

 

[crockett]

Raider2000- I have made all three styles. The Confederate Cardboard box doesn't protect them enough. The Colt, they are very hard to make because on the original Colt Boxes the wood between the holes is paper thin. I therefore settled on the mono-block Sage style- a piece of wood about the size of a deck of cards with six holes drilled.
I made up labels on both styles with the little string. Using a cold, unfired revolver (Colt 51) I ripped open the boxes and loaded up. Pretty fun. Normally though I used the Altoid cans.
I should also note that there are some books by Wilson. "Peacemakers" and "Steel Canvas" and a few others- these are the type of books with all sorts of photographs and there are quite a few revolvers in presentation cases with a packet or two of ammunition shown. Barnes & Noble often has these books in the bargain section.

 

[Moasf]

Howdy Gang, I have been toying with ideas on carrying paper cartridges for Remmy and for the Son's 51 navy. I know of the pistol cartridge pouch and the pocket carry. (currently we use old issue compass pouches) But when the Vets headed West after the war wear did they carry extra paper ammo in civilian life?
It seems a guy had lot of suff on his belt- a cap pouch, a bullet pouch and powder container of some type or a cap pouch and cartridge pouch (they must had bigger butts back then, I need load bearing suspenders or my kit would be around my ankles).
Same subject different thought anybody got any idea how late paper cartridges were still manufactured commercially?
Any input welcome
Thanks Sgt ski

That is a very good question.

 

[CyrusP]

This is a great thread. I’ve been pondering this lately since I’m making paper cartridges now for my 1861. I won’t go back to loading loose any more due to how great they work. With that said, Crockett’s point of shootists loading loose and keeping commercially made as backup makes the most sense. I also believe that most people did not/could not afford to shoot for practice regularly. Looking forward to more discussion!

 

[Loyalist Dave]

Howdy Gang, I have been toying with ideas on carrying paper cartridges for Remmy and for the Son's 51 navy. I know of the pistol cartridge pouch and the pocket carry. (currently we use old issue compass pouches) But when the Vets headed West after the war wear did they carry extra paper ammo in civilian life?
It seems a guy had lot of suff on his belt- a cap pouch, a bullet pouch and powder container of some type or a cap pouch and cartridge pouch (they must had bigger butts back then, I need load bearing suspenders or my kit would be around my ankles).
Same subject different thought anybody got any idea how late paper cartridges were still manufactured commercially?
Any input welcome
Thanks Sgt ski

LD

 

[CyrusP]

I bought that box from Cap and Ball in Hungary and it’s great.

 

[Jaegermeister]

Beautiful cartridges, Loyalist Dave.

 

[Rat]

I put mine in Altoid mint cans and cushion them with tissue paper. If they are going to be stored a while I put a plastic bag over the boxes.

Exactly. That's what I do, and seems the most simple solution for us modern shootists. All sorts of other size tins can be used. The round pellet-gun tins will hold quite a few. I do believe that after the war, a lot of people were using mostly boxed paper cartridges, and I think were carried wherever the person liked to carry them. Anyplace we can think of, they could think of. The old musket cap pouches will carry a reasonable amount of them, must have been a few of them around after the war. But for sure the factory wood boxes kept them dry and intact.

 

[GreyGus]

in the civil war, the us did not issue a cap pouch for pistols. Pistol cartridges were issued in six round paper packets and each packet also contained a paper tube of six (some say seven) caps. These packets were carried in the pistol cartridge box. His issue belt also carried a carbine cartridge box, a cap box for carbine caps his holster, and maybe a saber, depending on unit.

If I had been a civilian going west in the immediate post war period. I would have used a pistol cartridge box to carry (and protect) packets of pistol cartridges and a tin of pistol caps in a shirt or vest pocket. That is how I set up my rigs today.

It is interesting that when the army first adopted the 1873 SA, they issued CW era musket cap boxes ( with the wool lining removed) to the troops as pistol boxes even though they could only hold about 10 .45 Colt rounds. ( on campaign additional cartridges were to be carried in the saddle bags) This lead to troops on active campaign in the west having their pistol belts modified by adding cartridge loops, (as was an accepted practice for civilians) if their officers allowed non standard modifications.

 

[William P Sepessy]

The fragility of paper cartridges is one reason I don't attach any projectile to mine. I simply make a "paper sack" of powder. True, this negates some of the convenience of having everything contained in one package. However, I also have the ability to choose whatever projectile, either round ball or any number of heel bullets I cast for. The simple paper sacks are much more durable to handle or transport in any reasonable container. I have never had one break even though I have dropped them, had them roll off tables on to concrete surfaces, etc. Just last week I was using some of my remaining 36 paper cartridges that did have a round ball attached. Didn't fire them all and returned with about 20 stored in Altoid tins. Arriving home I discovered three of the cartridges broken open. So it is my belief that the attached lead projectile causes the issue unless the cartridges are somehow kept in a rigid position that doesn't allow them to contact each other.