Caucasian Miquelet "Cossack" Pistol & Locks

[rickystl]

Found it !! Pretty sure this is the same gun. The auction house is also in IMA's area. The hammer price of $2,250.00 would also have a 28% ($630.00) buyer's premium added. So the actual sale price was $2,880.00. And that's assuming a local pick-up (probably). Packing, shipping, and insurance would be extra.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...rod&queryID=1981b0ac7b297c70366c8d44f9bb482f#
Rick

 

[TobJohn]

Found it !! Pretty sure this is the same gun. The auction house is also in IMA's area. The hammer price of $2,250.00 would also have a 28% ($630.00) buyer's premium added. So the actual sale price was $2,880.00. And that's assuming a local pick-up (probably). Packing, shipping, and insurance would be extra.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...rod&queryID=1981b0ac7b297c70366c8d44f9bb482f#
Rick

I think that website is an auction aggregator. Helios is the actual auction.

 

[cyten]

How unfortunate that happened! I'm sure we can all relate to having a piece we want slip through our fingers. I myself am dealing with having my gunsafe in the US being stolen last week, huge pain but not all my pieces were in it thankfully.

 

[TobJohn]

How unfortunate that happened! I'm sure we can all relate to having a piece we want slip through our fingers. I myself am dealing with having my gunsafe in the US being stolen last week, huge pain but not all my pieces were in it thankfully.

Holy hell that’s awful! Hopefully the contents can be recovered.

 

[rickystl]

How unfortunate that happened! I'm sure we can all relate to having a piece we want slip through our fingers. I myself am dealing with having my gunsafe in the US being stolen last week, huge pain but not all my pieces were in it thankfully.

DARN!!! I am so sorry to hear this. It is so sad. I prey you recover everything.

Rick

 

[cyten]

thank you gentlemen for your condolences, have hope but we’ll see.

I did visit the local museum in Kutaisi, Georgia today and came across some interesting guns.

Some Circassian pistols stocked in silver, leather covered wood and plain wood

A rare example of a Khirimi with brass furniture

The most slender pistol I’ve seen, the grip couldn’t have been more than half an inch at its widest, tiny Circassian lock and stocked in horn.

A Dagestani style pistol

Ottoman styled Shishane (missing rear portion of its butt) & a Khirimi

Powder flask and priming flask

Depiction of a hunting scene embroidery

Imeretian warrior outfit

 

[rgiust]

Found it !! Pretty sure this is the same gun. The auction house is also in IMA's area. The hammer price of $2,250.00 would also have a 28% ($630.00) buyer's premium added. So the actual sale price was $2,880.00. And that's assuming a local pick-up (probably). Packing, shipping, and insurance would be extra.

https://www.invaluable.com/auction-...rod&queryID=1981b0ac7b297c70366c8d44f9bb482f#
Rick

At first glance it does look the same but on closer inspection they're actually different. Most notably the lock on this one is bright and shiny and the barrel is octagon. What a coincidence though that they sold at the same time!

 

[rgiust]

How unfortunate that happened! I'm sure we can all relate to having a piece we want slip through our fingers. I myself am dealing with having my gunsafe in the US being stolen last week, huge pain but not all my pieces were in it thankfully.

I'm so sorry to hear that. I hope you get them all back!
Also nice pictures. Thanks for sharing them.

 

[Rawhide67]

Just curious, how big was the gun safe? I have a small one lag bolted to the wall in a closet, and a large one built in to another closet. Short of a thief with a chain saw, they aren't going anywhere.

My wife used to have a small safe in her closet where she kept her fun money. It got up in to the thousands. She's a saver. I pointed out to her that her safe, wasn't safe, as it only weighed about 15 lbs. Even a teenager could pick it up and run away with it .

 

[rickystl]

At first glance it does look the same but on closer inspection they're actually different. Most notably the lock on this one is bright and shiny and the barrel is octagon. What a coincidence though that they sold at the same time!

Yes, I guess I was wrong then. What a coincidence. If so, that makes two that just slipped past you. DARN. I feel your pain as they say. The pistols often come up for sale. The long guns to a lesser degree. But they often sell very quickly, and usually at a substantial price. Even their accouterments bring premium pricing. But you should be able to locate one with the budget you have in mind. I'll keep on the lookout for you.

Rick

 

[rickystl]

Cyten: Thanks so much for posting those photos. And another example with the stock made from one piece of horn, like my pistol. Maybe not as rare as I thought. You mention how slim their guns were made. Apparently, weight reduction was a primary factor with the gun builders. Even the shoulder guns are super light. Again, thanks for the photos.

Rick

 

[PathfinderNC]

Fascinating thread

 

[cyten]

Just curious, how big was the gun safe?

It was about 5.5 feet tall, 150lbs empty, had it hidden behind boxes, not bolted though.

Of interest, I thought I’d share a gun tool/screwdriver for these arms. They most often a separate piece attached to the belt but in some cases they a part of the belt

 

[rickystl]

Very neat tool. Unusual shape. Besides a screwdriver, can't figure out how it was used ? Possibly the "L" shape end used as a flint knapper ? Maybe one edge used for flint & steel fie making ? First time I've seen this tool. Thanks so much for posting.

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

Maybe the slots in the tool were used to help disassemble the lock? I know a regular mainspring clamp won’t work on those…

 

[cyten]

I am not completely sure of how they function to be honest. However the basic form was used and even adopted into Russian service with the issuance of the Berdan rifle

This illustration is from an 1884 maintenance manual for the Cossack model Berdan

This tool is from an 1876 cased Cossack Berdan

 

[rickystl]

Post #116 looks like it might be a later variation of the same tool to accommodate changes for later period guns. But still can't figure out how it would be used with their muzzle loading guns. Hmmmm.

 

[rickystl]

Maybe the slots in the tool were used to help disassemble the lock? I know a regular mainspring clamp won’t work on those…

Hi Sam

Yes, the mainspring vises for the typical flintlocks won't work with 99% of the miquelet locks. Here is an original miquelet mainspring vise from my collection. And next to it a new one made for me by Jeff Miller. These are the typical style of vises used for miquelets - at least for European guns. The monkey tail is used to compress the frizzen spring.

Rick

 

[Sam squanch]

They must be for a partial takedown of the miquelet locks. Or they have the slots in them to save material and save weight. I’m hoping to get an original Turkish miquelet lock soon. I may make a copy to see if it helps in disassembling it.

 

[cyten]

An interesting rifle just recently sold at auction in New York. It has both Turkish Shishane & Caucasian Khirimi form and features, almost like a transitional piece. I call this style "Gurien" because most of the period photos of the Gurien warriors have these styled guns.
Guria is a south western region of Georgia that is near the border with Turkey, so the mix of stlyes makes a lot of sense.

Notice the Turkish lock but long lips like the Circassian locks and the wide silver barrel bands common to the Khirimi.

Shorter barrel of the Shishane, butt of the Khirimi

Engraved tang in the Ottoman style

Period photo of Gurien man and rifle

One on display (on the left) with original sling in the Hisart Museum in Istanbul

An example from a photo of a man in Trabzon (Turkish city on the Black Sea, heavily populated with people from all over the Ottoman Empire as well as the Caucasus)