CCI caps vrs RWS caps

[JIMinPHX]

I just started fooling around with a Pietta clone of an 1851 Navy. It looks like it

 

[pondoro]

Jim this is a great idea and I will try it myself with some CCI caps that I have - they exhibit the exact problem that you described on my 1860 Colt clone (also by Pietta).

 

[ValleyForge]

I had the same problem with my Uberti 1861 Colt - my local outfitter only sells CCI caps, and I had misfire after misfire: easily 3 out of every 6. On my last trip to Cabelas I bought some Remington caps- just went out to the range today, and had hardly any problems: I shot 6 cylinders & had 1 misfire.

Not a bad change. I'm gonna ask my local guys to stock them.

 

[lonewolf5347]

I always use RWS 1075 PLUS :These are the hottest caps and are hotter then the RWS 1075 in no#11 caps,they are hard to locate and run about $6.00 for a hundred rounds ,I can say I never had a misfire with these caps in my sidelocks

 

[JIMinPHX]

I Just found RWS 1075+ caps in Phoenix -
Sportsman's Warehouse, corner of Yorkshire & 27th Ave

 

[JIMinPHX]

Now this was unexpected. I finally found a supply of RWS caps & I thought that my troubles were over, but I was wrong. The new caps are too small to fit on two of the nipples properly. Those two nipples only measure a few thousandths bigger than the rest, but they are different (at least they were). I was surprised that such a small difference in nipple diameter would make such a big difference in cap fit.

I tried some of the new caps anyway. The two ill-fitting caps took a double tap to set them off. Since I don

 

[Zonie]

I think it's time for a little more sandpaper (or a nice fine toothed flat file).

The nipples used in C&B guns are different than the nipples used in regular single shot precussion pistols and rifles. They are usually shorter than the rifle nipples so be sure you order the right ones.

As for the small amount of material you need to remove to make a big difference in how the cap fits, you've given me another chance to be a geek.
The axial movement of the cap on the nipple is a function of the tangent of the angle of the nipple cone.
As this angle is only a few degrees a little makes a lot of difference.
The formula is (D1-D2)/2 divided by (tangent A) where D1 is the original diameter, D2 is the final diameter and A is the cone angle of one side.
If this cone angle is 2 degrees and the diameter of the nipple is reduced .003 the axial movement will result in a .043 movement of the cap.
If the nipple angle is 5 degrees, the same .003 reduction in diameter will move the cap .017.
This is why just a little variation in the cap's diameter can make such a large difference.

As for your guns inability to fire mis-fitting caps, you might want to pull the grips off and grease the area where the mainspring rubs on the hammer. Even those guns with rollers at this location often have poorly fitted rollers that don't roll so a little grease will sometimes help.

I would suggest getting a new mainspring but that's a crap shoot because the new spring may be just like the one you have.

 

[JIMinPHX]

Wow Zonie,
It's like you read minds or something. I do need to start fiddling with the gun to make the hammer drop a little better. I

 

[JIMinPHX]

Wow, that was educational. I just pulled the grips off to do a little inspection. At first, I thought that I found a bunch of lapping compound inside the werks. Then I realized that what I was looking at was actually fouling from the caps that I have been firing. There was a bunch of it. It was all over the main spring, the hammer roller & even inside the trigger assembly. Apparently, that stuff really gets in there on a regular basis.

When I pulled the trigger out to clean it, I found another surprise. There was a piece of shrapnel from one of the caps under the sear. The shrapnel had some dents in it, so I

 

[montanadan]

JIMminPHX-The dent in your main spring is there for a reason,to keep the roller centered on the main spring.The roller on the hammer should rotate easily.The factory nipples(although better now than in the past)still vary a great deal both in length and diameter.SOMETIMES main springs are actually to long,meaning that they bottom out on the hammer at full cock,simple to correct.Shorten the spring.I also polish the hammer channel in the frame where the hammer sits at the at rest position,this will reduce the drag on the hammer.Keeping the internals of any CB clean is a must,I seen more problems corrected by just keeping the pistols clean.Nipple replacement the best I have seen lately are the ones from Thunder Ridge,they handle two styles.Hardened stainless,(use 11 caps only)and the Treso's Ampco steel.I use the Treso's because they have smaller hole through nipple,less blow back to the hammer and reduce cap jams.Some of the Treso's will be to long for your pistol,I believe they are manufactured this way so they can fitted to a specific pistol.Sorry for being a long winded old dog..Respectfully Montanadan

 

[CoyoteJoe]

:thumbsup: And thanks for that posting Montanadan, I had been thinking of PMing you that very question. I recall you once mentioned a nipple and cap combination that solved the cap-jam problem but I'd forgotten exactly what the comb was. Thanks again. :grin:

 

[JIMinPHX]

The last 3 posts of mine on this thread got partially gobbled up in the forum changeover. I’ll try to remember what I had there ”“

It was something generally like this

I took Zonie’s advice & went for a look inside the grips. His suggestion about the grease made the hammer feel noticeably better. The roller spins freely now. While I was in there, I noticed a bunch of fouling (a whole lot) from the caps that I had been firing. I pulled out the trigger assembly & cleaned things up. I also found a piece of shrapnel from one of the caps in there. It was under the sear & had a dent, so I know that it had probably been the source of some foul play. When I got it all cleaned up, the sear felt good, but the hammer was still rubbing on the frame a little. I stoned out the wear marks & then touched up the case color with a little bluing. It blended in well. After that, the hammer felt spring like & I did not feel any drag. It is worlds better than it was. I can actually say that it feels good now. What I seem to have learned from this little look inside the gizmo, is that these cap & ball revolvers must need to have the insides cleaned much more frequently than I would have expected. I guess that will be the day’s lesson.

 

[scott k]

Rem #10. the cci #10's fit the nipples on my Pieta 1851 navy a lot better then the #10 After reading all of the posts I picked up some cci caps to try. All I used before where Remington’s. I had to squeeze the Remington’s or they would fall off when firing. The Remington’s all went to pieces and would jam the gun up. Never had one miss fire with the Remington’s.
The cci fit tighter and did not come apart near as bad but still did get jammed in the gun somewhat. I shot about 30 rounds and had one cap not go off on the first try it went off on the second time around though. The nipples where get fouling build up by then.
Both caps worked well for me, the cci just a little better this time.
I want to get some ampco nipples and see how they work
The gun did not get near as much fouling down in the frame last time with the caps staying together better too.
The shape of the hammer seams to just funnels the fouling right down though the frame. I've bine taking the whole thing apart to clean it since getting it a couple of months ago. I Found more than one piece of cap in there.
Lehigh...

 

[montanadan]

Coyote Joe and others-If you are going to change out your nipples(cones)you are probably going to want to take the time to correctly fit them to a specific pistol.Currently there are two schools of thought on this(for achieving the correct at rest position of the hammer),one being, shorten the strike area on the face of the hammer,requires filing and re-hardening the hammer.Me I went with the easy way,just filed the nipples to correct length,them smoothed with emery cloth via electric drill.What's the correct length?All my CB's can be dry fired without the hammer hitting the nipples,just like the real Colt's or Remmies.I leave an air-gap of .002 "to.003" between the face of the hammer and nipple.My CB's always go bang when loaded,is this hard to do?NOPE.This is also a good time to fit your nipples to your caps(what ever brand you like).None of this is hard but it is time consuming,if you are in a hurry,maybe pick another time to start this project..Hope I have helped,windy old dog..Respectfully Montanadan

 

[JIMinPHX]

These days I have access to better tools again, so I revisited the issue of cap to nipple fit. I I ended up doing some precision lathe work that gave me very good results.

I just tried to post pictures of some drawings that show what I ended up with, but I can't seem to get the pictures to post here. I have the pictures (jpg) on my computer & also posted on another forum. I can't seem to get a picture link to work from the other forum. If somebody knows how I can post the pictures here directly, please let me know.

Thanks,
Jim

 

[TFoley]

First off OLD ARMYS do not use #10's even thought the owners manual says they do...

That's odd. True, I only have one ROA, unlike many of you, who have a couple of dozen of 'em, but I've used nothing but RWS #11 caps on it since the day I bought it, March 2nd 1986.

Used 'em again yesterday afternoon - still on the original nipples, and it gets shot at least once a month - extensively. And by that I mean at least a hundred ball per session with Pyrodex P.

Definitely the most reliable C&B handgun I've ever encountered in my life.

tac

 

[Josh Smith]

What happened to all these people?

I see four or five names I recognize; the rest, nope.

Sorry for pulling this up, but it came up in a Google search for thumbs getting blown off when seating caps, and thought I'd ask the question even if it does raise up a 6-year-old thread.

Did the board have a high turnover at one point?

Josh

 

[Zonie]

With the exception of Mr. Anonymous they are still members of the Forum.

Whether they quit coming here or just quit posting I cannot say.

You don't suppose they are in total agreement with the posts of today so they just smile and say, "Well, I don't think I can add anything to the outstanding wisdom of those folks!" and go to the next topic, do you? :grin:

 

[CaptainKirk]

Josh, internet fora are like old friends...sometimes you find a new place to hang out, with new folks and a new interest, and pretty soon the old friends are goin'
"Now why don't he write?!!!"
They may be back.
Life travels in circles.
At any rate, it appears this forum is growing in leaps and bounds!

 

[graybeard]

zonie: you are right. When I read a question here that I could answer, I find that half a dozen members who know more than I do about the subject have already posted. graybeard