Cleaning: boiling water vs. solvents

[ozark57]

Just got back into black powder and have noticed a lot of new cleaning solvents and solutions available. I always used to remove my barrel and put it into a bucket of boiling water and clean in the traditional manner. Also I just bought a real nice Kentucky rifle in .36 caliber that removing the stock on to clean every time is not practicle. What products/ways are best?

 

[hornbuilder]

boiling water the traditional method ???????? I don't think so . I believe you will find that cleaning your barrel in cold water will achieve the same desired effect without the rust that accompanies hot water baths ..... of course this is my own opinion , I try and stick to the basics , soap and cold water :hmm:

 

[Dphar]

Just got back into black powder and have noticed a lot of new cleaning solvents and solutions available. I always used to remove my barrel and put it into a bucket of boiling water and clean in the traditional manner. Also I just bought a real nice Kentucky rifle in .36 caliber that removing the stock on to clean every time is not practicle. What products/ways are best?

Unless you are shooting one of the highly corrosive substitutes boiling water is not needed.
To clean any fixed breech flint gun used with BP in the stock remove the lock and plug the vent with a round toothpick. Wipe exterior of the barrel and the powder fouled wood clean with a damp patch.
I use a mix of window cleaner and water 1 part WC to 2-3 parts water.
I use a spray bottle in in the shop to spray about 3-4" of this mix in the bore. I then upend the gun 4-5 times with a thumb over the muzzle to stir things up. Now dump the mix out then wet patch 1-2 times. Repeat the slosh and dump process and wet patch. Slosh dump again then slosh dump with plain water. This will wash away 90%+ of the fouling and corrosive elements.
If there is a lot of fouling or its suspected to be built up in the breech twist a wad of wet cleaning patch material against the breech with the worm to wipe this clean after the first slosh and dump. Its not generally needed but I do it anyway.
Wet patch 2-3 patches if it is looking pretty clean then dry patch till most of the water is gone. Pull vent plug and dry patch a few more. It is possible to get a little black at this point but if the wet patches were clean its likely iron oxide from the drying bore.
When the patches are pretty dry squirt some (2-3 seconds of spray) WD 40 in the muzzle then using the little plastic pipe the new cans all come with shoot some, a second or 2 in the vent. Wipe once with a loose fitting patch then stand the gun muzzle down on a folded paper towel to drain.
Be careful not the spray wd40 out the vent when running the patch down.

Clean the lock, dry and oil the exterior.

There will likely be some black manure that drains out of the bore with the wd40. Unless there is a LOT its not a problem a little at coming out of the grooves is not a big deal. Wipe the bore with 2-3 dry patches. Reassemble the rifle.
Oil bore with a preservative oil and stand muzzle down overnight to keep oil from running into the stock.
Guns that have been shot with corrosive substitutes may be much harder to clean and this may not work as well.

Percussion guns can be cleaned in this manner by putting a piece of rubber, like old inner tube over the nipple then pressing the hammer tight against it.
Dan

 

[tg]

", I try and stick to the basics , soap and cold water"

Yep keep it simple, many make things way to complicated.

 

[bob308]

i have read the buffalo hunters used hot water to clean their rifles.

i have used hot water since i have been shooting muzzle loaders [1985] and never had a rust problem.

 

[Va.Manuf.06]

Cold water. Plug the vent, fill the barrel, wait minutes, pour out of the muzzle. Then fill bore 2/3 of the way clean and slosh back and forth a few times and drain, repeat until water is clean (if it isn't already. Stand gun on it's muzzle (gently in a steady place) and let remaining water drain, then dry with patches. Done.

 

[oldarmy]

cold water... unless you shoot in the winter.when it's too cold to use :surrender:
then use warm :v
This is why my latest rifle has keys rather then pins.. :thumbsup: I still need to unscrew the tang bolt..But it is a simple matter of taking the lock out.. into the bucket. Then the barrel is removed.
Breech end going first. pump it a few time with a slotted patch. Then a brass brush to remove the tough fowling.. A few dry patches..some WD40.
Clean up the lock..
Piece of cake.. ready for tomorrows shooting..
After hunting season..well.. I like to shoot the rifle all the time. I think this year,I will continue to use it. even in the FREEZING COLD OF NORTHERN NEW ENGLAND.:cursing:
Just for a few shoots :grin:

 

[catman]

Ozark water in the creek behind my house, clean & cool & works for me. I clean it right there after I shoot. No flash rust with the cool creek water clean.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Hot water, buffalo hunters???? Read Frank Mayer's book. They plugged the bore and filled the bore with urine. (Marginally qualifying as hot water, I suppose) Let it stand while and then cleaned it. Out on the range, water was often at a premium.

 

[bob308]

i think if you read it again it says after all the pots were empty you supplied the water your self.

 

[MikeChapin]

I tried hot water cleaning many years ago and the only difference I saw with cold water was that the hot water gave me flash rusting.

I never pull the barrels on my rifles that have pinned barrels. There is too much of a chance that you can bugger up the stock taking those barrels in and out. I do pull hooked breech barrels because it is more convenient to maneuver the barrel rather than the whole rifle.

I clean my rifles with TOW's Bore Clean cut 50/50 with water. It is nothing more than a super soap that does a little better job than dish soap and water (which works well also). I pull the locks on my flinters and tie a shop rag around the touch hole to keep crud from coming out the touch hole and just clean away.

 

[Dphar]

i think if you read it again it says after all the pots were empty you supplied the water your self.

When out of drinking water is scarce its hard to waste it cleaning a gun.
Breechblocks on percussion Sharps that were locked by fouling were freed by urine in the CW from what I have read.

However, it is possible to clean a BPCR with FAR less water than a ML gun.
When shooting PP in my 45-100 I can clean it with 2 wet and 2 dry patches and its done. With GG lead has to be looked for but getting the BP fouling out is almost too easy.
BUT.
In the 19th century they used corrosive caps and primers and this was a different story all together. These DO require hot water and a fair amount of it though John Taylor stated he used to clean his nitro double rifles by pouring a teacup full through each bore and then drying a oiling and these were chlorate primers.
I have never used water that you would call "hot" to clean a ML and not gotten flash rusting to a greater or lesser extent. Hotter the barrel gets the more oxide forms. But I don't use corrosive powders/primers etc.
If the fouling in the bore requires hot water there is a problem with the patch lube or its not blackpowder fouling.

Dan

 

[Black Hand]

Water (cold) works just fine...You can plug the touch-hole with a toothpick and fill the barrel with water (a little dish soap doesn't hurt), dump out the water (repeat as necessary) and scrub with damp, then dry patches. Lube your barrel and you're done.

 

[doulos]

Dan You are right as rain about the ease of cleaning a BPCR. I had a Shiloh that I shot with nothing but Goex Cartridge with and it was the easiest to clean black powder firearm Ive ever used.

 

[Poor Private]

What an amazing coinkadink I belong to a civil war forum and there is a thread there going over the same thing. But what got me was 2 guys professed and swear by cleaning thier long percushion guns(Enfields/Springfields) with coffee. I guess they must use leftovers from breakfast.

 

[Stumpkiller]

For the past few years I've been using room temperature water with a bit of Murphy's Oil Soap in it. Works just as well as hot, soapy water as far as I can tell.

I carry a little bottle of it pre-made up if I'm away from home.

I do follow up with a wipe using a strong alcohol patch to clear out any moisture and then a penetrating oil wipe (Sheath - and when that runs out Barricade). Before I load again another alcohol wipe to chase the oil out of the bore.

 

[hanshi]

I've always used hot soapy water in the past and it seems to work a little better than cold water. I say "hot" though it's really only warm by the time I get going. I've never noticed any difference between hot & cold water as far as any "flash rust" is concerned. I always run an oiled patch down the bore the next day. No matter how clean it appears the day before, patches sometimes come out slightly to very dirty (not bp residue) after the rifle sets overnight. I've even noticed this in modern cartridge rifles to an extent.

I got to thinking a while back; this alleged "flash" rusting didn't really sound right. My rifle bores decades old are still pristine and shiny even after countless episodes of flash rusting. How could this be? What if this isn't necessarily rust at all? It seems like crud has dissolved or been pulled from the bore surface. It certainly wasn't there at the end of the cleaning/oiling process the night before.

Is it possible trace amounts of preservative oil remained in the bore steel and bonded with the metal during firing, and when cleaned & oiled, the oil loosened the residue enabling the patch to wipe it out? The color on the patches pulled out of the bore are various shades of brown & gray; not exactly like cloth used to rub known rust. This was not an epiphany, just a theory that seemed to explain the situation (to me). I just don't know for sure one way or the other.

The clamp-on flush tubes for flintlocks sound like they might be faster & clean better than the old "soak 'n swab". They're fairly costly, however, from DGW, Cabelas, etc. Is there a source for them on line at reasonable cost?

 

[fyrfyter43]

The clamp-on flush tubes for flintlocks sound like they might be faster & clean better than the old "soak 'n swab". They're fairly costly, however, from DGW, Cabelas, etc. Is there a source for them on line at reasonable cost?

I think it was somebody on here that posted a link to a how-to to make one with a zerk fitting and some tubing. Obviously it would only work with a removable vent liner. I saved it because it looked like a good idea. Here it is: http://huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/290220-zerk-fitting-flush-kit.html

 

[Blizzard of '93]

myself I use windsheild washer fluid, the winter mix with more alky in it in a spray jar it's handy to field-clean revolvers useing a small paint brush.

 

[StewartLeach]

I'm mostly a target shooter, except last weekend and the next (ML season). I shoot calibers 40, 50, 54 and 58, and I find this drill works well.

At the end of a range session, I run a couple of patches in and out, really sloppy wet with Moose Milk, and leave wet while travelling home. Think you could also use one of the commercial solvents. Out on the back porch I clean with warm from the faucet tap water with just a few drops of dish soap in the plastic bucket. A patch wrapped around a 357 cal pistol brush is used for patent breech rifles. The soaking while travelling seems to loosen the fouling so it only takes a few passes once I get home.

Bores are dried with patches, and then protected with Ballistol or WD40. Before firing again I swab with a couple of patches moistened with rubbing alcohol to remove the oil.

My MM recipe: in a quart or liter plastic bottle, 2 fluid oz Ballistol, 2 oz Simple Green, water to make up the quart or liter. I use this as patch lube when target shooting, and swab between shots.

Wish me luck, boys. I didn't get close enough to pull the trigger last weekend.

White Fox