Cleaning jag getting stuck

[Fin2Fur]

I'm new to muzzleloaders so I don't want to mess this up and don't know a whole lot other than the basics. I have a T/C renegade. Ive only shot 3 times. Every time I've cleaned it my cleaning jag gets stuck. The first to times it was just hard to pull out. This last time I had to put the end of the cleaning rod in a vice just to pull it out. It goes down the barrel perfectly fine until about 2 to 3 inches before the breech and gets suck. From day 1 it was also difficult to seat the ball against the powder. 50cal 495 ball 10 patch. Cleaning with hot water then ballistol water mix till patch is clean then light oil when done. What could be wrong?

 

[morehops52]

I'm making popcorn before I answer this

 

[Phil Coffins]

Common new guy mistake, don’t push it in all the way to start cleaning. With a wet patch go in about four inches then back out. Each time you push it in go a bit farther than back out till you work your way all the way down. These short strokes with wet patches will make it easy to do the cleaning.
Clean with just water or add a drop of soap will do a perfect job, don’t use anything else to start. Once clean dry and oil well. I prefer Barricade oil inside and out. You don’t need any special mixtures or equipment. Read all the posts about wire brushes getting stuck too!

 

[Grimord]

Do as Phil says, or put your jag in a drill press or hand held drill and run the drill/press with a file against the jag to remove some of the brass to make the diameter of the jag smaller. The other option is to use a .45 caliber jag.

 

[morehops52]

Not quite enough info but I'll try to help. You said cleaning but not whether it's range cleaning or end of day. I'll start at the end. For end of day cleaning take the barrel off remove the nipple and put breech end in a bucket of warm (not hot) water with a little bit of dish or laundry soap in it. Dip your patch in the bucket to wet it and use a pumping motion as you progress down the barrel. DO NOT use a dry patch. That should take care of the stuck patch issue.
At the range start with a very wet patch and only go 1/2-3/4 way down the barrel and then change your patch to get rid of some of the gunk. Then a new saturated patch to go all the way down. You are probably getting a crud ring just above the powder level. If it still gets jammed, pour a little liquid something, I've used cleaning solution or gun oil, down the barrel to soften the fouling. A lot of times that's all that's needed. If still stuck I use a small piece of leather on the muzzle to protect it and then use my multi-tool pliers. Fit the pliers resting on the leather & perpendicular to the rod and lever the rod up a little at a time. You only have to lever it up enough to get the patch turning inside the barrel. If worried about pliers marks on your rod you can wrap another piece of leather around it too. I use a Delrin rod and the marks sand out easily. You will get some other answers. They all work but this is what works best for me.

 

[Fin2Fur]

Common new guy mistake, don’t push it in all the way to start cleaning. With a wet patch go in about four inches then back out. Each time you push it in go a bit farther than back out till you work your way all the way down. These short strokes with wet patches will make it easy to do the cleaning.
Clean with just water or add a drop of soap will do a perfect job, don’t use anything else to start. Once clean dry and oil well. I prefer Barricade oil inside and out. You don’t need any special mixtures or equipment. Read all the posts about wire brushes getting stuck too!

Thanks I figured it was something I was doing wrong.

 

[Fin2Fur]

Not quite enough info but I'll try to help. You said cleaning but not whether it's range cleaning or end of day. I'll start at the end. For end of day cleaning take the barrel off remove the nipple and put breech end in a bucket of warm (not hot) water with a little bit of dish or laundry soap in it. Dip your patch in the bucket to wet it and use a pumping motion as you progress down the barrel. DO NOT use a dry patch. That should take care of the stuck patch issue.
At the range start with a very wet patch and only go 1/2-3/4 way down the barrel and then change your patch to get rid of some of the gunk. Then a new saturated patch to go all the way down. You are probably getting a crud ring just above the powder level. If it still gets jammed, pour a little liquid something, I've used cleaning solution or gun oil, down the barrel to soften the fouling. A lot of times that's all that's needed. If still stuck I use a small piece of leather on the muzzle to protect it and then use my multi-tool pliers. Fit the pliers resting on the leather & perpendicular to the rod and lever the rod up a little at a time. You only have to lever it up enough to get the patch turning inside the barrel. If worried about pliers marks on your rod you can wrap another piece of leather around it too. I use a Delrin rod and the marks sand out easily. You will get some other answers. They all work but this is what works best for me.

I ment to mention it's getting stuck at the range cleaning. I just realized I'm trying to do to much with the first patch by running it all the way down. Thanks for the information.

 

[snakebit]

Can I ask if you are using black or substitute powder? The subs seem to foul pretty bad leaving a crud ring, that's trapping your patch and jag. All sound advice from the fellas up top. Don't put too much butter on your popcorn morehops, get your keyboard slippery

 

[earlwb]

One other thought that some rifles have a stepped chamber down near the breech. This is smaller than the bore itself. You have to watch out for it or you would get the jag stuck there too,

 

[CaptainVane]

Man, I suddenly have a craving for heavily buttered popcorn.

 

[bpd303]

Another thing is the size of your cleaning patches. Too big they will bunch up and get stuck when withdrawing them.

 

[Buckskinquin]

Hope you’re not using a button jag rather than a cleaning jag. The button jag does not have the tapered relief between the jag end and rod end. This will exacerbate the jamming in the bore. All other advice is sound and should solve your issue.

 

[Marplot]

Man, I suddenly have a craving for heavily buttered popcorn.

Will that lubrication, the jag should slide!

 

[Marplot]

I start by pinching the nipple between the hammer and squirt Moose Milk (9 parts water and 1 part Ballistol) down the muzzle.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I would question the bore condition at the breech, sometimes used guns have a rusty bore that snags patches.

Your breech might look like this.

 

[Ohio Rusty]

I quit using jags many years ago. I found that using an undersize bore brush and wrapping that with my cleaning cloth makes a tight enough fit to scrub the fouling out of the barrel and it won't get stuck downbore. Depending on how much cloth you wrap around the brush you can make it tighter or looser. My absolute favorite cloths to clean my barrel is one of these cotton red shop rags. They are coarse to the touch. That coarseness helps scrub the barrel clean much better than something like a soft piece of flannel. They have lots of nooks and crannies to catch the fouling you remove from the bore. Being attached to a cleaning brush, you can leave an over hang on the end of extra material and spin it at the bottom to scrub the face of the breech plug.
Ohio Rusty ><>

 

[Rebel bull]

the biggest things I do different is first of I do boil the water. I then place the breech in the pan or attach a hose to the breech nipple/vent and put it in the pan, and fill the barrel to the muzzle with water before running a patch in. I use only water and I want the barrel to become uncomfortable to hold hot. then start running running dry patches down and out generally it takes 4-5 patches to dry the barrel is still warm I then run a lubed patch out flip it over and down and out. I DO NOT EVER PUT ANY PETROLUM PRODUCT IN MY BARREL EVER. I don't like dealing with the fouling that develops when mixing black powder and oil.

 

[Notchy Bob]

I would question the bore condition at the breech, sometimes used guns have a rusty bore that snags patches.

Your breech might look like this.

View attachment 305760

Lots of good advice here, but I would agree with @Eric Krewson . Relatively new shooter with a used rifle. If a former owner failed to clean it properly, especially if he was using Pyrodex, there might very well be corrosion near the breech confounding the problem. Maybe take the rifle to a gunsmith and get the bore scoped.

Someone mentioned the chambered breech and the jag getting stuck in it. I don’t think that’s an issue with the T/C, using a jag for a .50 caliber bore. The T/C breechplug does have a round-bottomed chamber or “powder well,” but it’s only about 3/8” in diameter and the jag is too big to go in it. T/C used to sell a special breech scraper for getting in there and scraping it out. RMC/Ox-Yoke still makes and sells them.

Meanwhile, you can also use a brass shotgun patch loop to hold a patch for getting down the bore. Not as good as a properly fitted jag, but it works. If you use a shotgun patch loop, I would recommend the solid brass ones from Dewey. The ones with a loop of wire can pull apart, and the nylon ones will pull off your rod because the nylon threads are not strong enough.

Best regards,

Notchy Bob

 

[beardedhorse]

May we assume that the TC Renegade is used from a previous owner? Good advice to here. My patches did not getstuck when lubed or wet but final drying would get stuck unless I switched to a smaller diameter jag. Always used boiling water for major clean and pre soak with some drops of Dawn in warm water. Pre soak has nipple replaced with Allen set screw and then nipple or screw removed to put breech end in plastic juice decanter for hot water pumping. Do you have access to a more scope to check the condition of the breech?

 

[Fin2Fur]

I appreciate all the advice from everyone. I got a lot of good information here. I did a big clean on the gun last night and got alot of crap out of it even after geting clean patchs. A dry patch slides beautiful all the way down the barrel now.