Colt 1851 Navy—120 yards?

[Sir Boniface Harrison]

This discussion reminds me of the bit in The Magnificent Seven when the James Coburn character 'Britt' shoots a bandit off his horse, at a distance that cannot be less than 200 yards. Chico: 'That's the best shot I've ever seen!' Britt: 'It was the worst. I was aiming at the horse!' To be fair, I think Coburn was using a Peacemaker.

 

[FiremanBrad]

Didn't that shootout happen Springfield, Missouri?

Yes, not Tombstone.

 

[Eutycus]

This discussion reminds me of the bit in The Magnificent Seven when the James Coburn character 'Britt' shoots a bandit off his horse, at a distance that cannot be less than 200 yards. Chico: 'That's the best shot I've ever seen!' Britt: 'It was the worst. I was aiming at the horse!' To be fair, I think Coburn was using a Peacemaker.

Thomas Haden Church did that "long-shot-with-a-peacemaker" thing too in a movie. I forget which film, it may have been Broken Trail. That shot wasn't as far as Coburn's and I feel it very possible.

 

[Bad Karma]

This discussion reminds me of the bit in The Magnificent Seven when the James Coburn character 'Britt' shoots a bandit off his horse, at a distance that cannot be less than 200 yards. Chico: 'That's the best shot I've ever seen!' Britt: 'It was the worst. I was aiming at the horse!' To be fair, I think Coburn was using a Peacemaker.

And to also be fair, Coburn was a Marine…

 

[Bad Karma]

This discussion reminds me of the bit in The Magnificent Seven when the James Coburn character 'Britt' shoots a bandit off his horse, at a distance that cannot be less than 200 yards. Chico: 'That's the best shot I've ever seen!' Britt: 'It was the worst. I was aiming at the horse!' To be fair, I think Coburn was using a Peacemaker.

Dang three round burst…

 

[Bad Karma]

This discussion reminds me of the bit in The Magnificent Seven when the James Coburn character 'Britt' shoots a bandit off his horse, at a distance that cannot be less than 200 yards. Chico: 'That's the best shot I've ever seen!' Britt: 'It was the worst. I was aiming at the horse!' To be fair, I think Coburn was using a Peacemaker.

…

 

[Eutycus]

And to also be fair, Coburn was a Marine…

Yeah but Church was an "Accidental Texan". That's a joke and a title to one of his movies. Church was a Californian.

 

[Whitworth]

OK, it is time for one of you guys who have access to a 120 yard range to set up a target and drape a towel or something similar on it and shoot and see if the ball penetrates it, then report back.

Judging by how the .36 buries it's self in wood at the 100 yard backstop I would say a towel at 120 shouldn't be a problem.

 

[StoryWriter85]

Here you go @StoryWriter85 ....I tried it. 6 shots at 121yards. Only had six cartridges. Now that I know the sight picture, I believe that this would become an easy shot with a little practice. View attachment 341884
Conicals seem to make the 36cal's way better at long range.

6th shot at 121 Yards, Kneeling
36cal 1851 London
Lee conical/GOTOW paper cartridge

View attachment 341885

Wow! Good to know. So you did this with conical bullets?

 

[M. De Land]

And to also be fair, Coburn was a Marine…

 

[texasred]

This needs to be put in perspective. At 120 yard with a Cap and Ball or any pistol, its a lob shot. Its not a sharpshooter shot. Sharpshooters did not shoot their targets with pistols, they shot them with a rifled gun and depending on what era and whose side etc etc etc.

So, yes you can take a shot at a mile if you want, once in a millions tried you hit what you are shooting at (note I did not say aiming). 120 yards with a pistol there is no aiming, you angel it up and guess.

Its why snipers have spotters. They see where the shot hit the ground and tell the shooter his setup is off and by how much. Then a 2nd shot (may or may not hit).

A sharpshooter and a pistol shoot are pretty close to being oxymoronic. No one sharp shot with a pistol.

So, 2.5 inches is considered acceptable with a modern pistol and certainly some finely tune BP will exceed that. Post Civil War was there any such thing? At 100 yards you are 10 inches (hoping there is no wind). So being generous lets call it 13 inches at 120 yards.

So that is what we call a manure shoot. Not given I am being shot at be the guy has a pistol or a rifle, its worth a try though at best you are likely to distract him (I am going to assume a guy here).

Your best shooter is limited by the equipment (and the equipment is limited capability wise to the skill of the shooter).

Now does a sharpshooter translate to a good pistol shot? No. Is it possible? yea. But would someone practice to hit things at 120 yard with a pistol. Oh hell no. That is what a rifle is for.

30-30? There is a reason its called minute of deer. Its more an Eastern US thing where the cover is thick and the shots are under 75 yards. More like 50.

I got pretty good with a modern pistol. 1.5 inches at 25 yards. I shot 100s of rounds to get there. How many people old west had the time to practice? Yea a few did but it was not a routine thing.

There were two phenomenal shots by a Baker Rifle in the Peninsula War. both by the same guy. Range is unknown, 400 yards probably a minimum. Pure luck (they laid on their back and supported the rifle with their feet for those longer shots). Was it worth a whack at 200 yards? Sure (you had a buddy to cover you while you reloaded). Worst case you just missed and you might well hit an adjacent person.

Sharpshooter and pistol shooter are a misnomer. Amazing shots were pulled off, but like the Baker shoots, a why not but you sure aren't counting on it.

For a guy with a Sharps? Yea, easy shot but even that is not guaranteed. You need a gun that is sub 1 MOA and a person who can shoot sub 1 MOA (a 2.5 inch at 25 is 10 MOA).

Longest sniper shot ever was proceeded by 2 shots. His spotter walked him in and the guys being shot at (3 as I recall) just stood there. No one ever said which of the 3 he was shooting at so the kill shot may have hit the adjacent guy.

Not interested in a flame war. I am of the opinion that a dogmatic post as yours reflects that age old if I can't do it nobody can. Perhaps a coach would be beneficial?

 

[Smokerr]

Nothing Dogmatic about it. Just the facts. Perhaps rather than a passive aggressive you can list some facts?

I am a decent shot, I was pretty good with a pistol when I was younger. 120 yards with a pistol is a lob shot and no one no matter how skilled is going to make that shot. Sure you can practice and walk it in and start to get into CEP that a hit is possible.

Then you change the background and its a week later? Nope. Start walking it in again. It does not mean you can't hit on first shot, that is pure statistics and luck.

You hear all sorts of terms for a pistolero. Gunfighter being prominant. A pistol is a close in tool. Read up on the average pistol shoot out distance (7 yards) and how many misses occurr.

Sharpshooter is exclusively a rifle shooter (be it a Kentucky Long gun or a Baker or a Sharps).

 

[M. De Land]

Not interested in a flame war. I am of the opinion that a dogmatic post as yours reflects that age old if I can't do it nobody can. Perhaps a coach would be beneficial?

The other thing is the fact that a good rifle shot in no way guarantees a good revolver shot !

 

[M. De Land]

Nothing Dogmatic about it. Just the facts. Perhaps rather than a passive aggressive you can list some facts?

I am a decent shot, I was pretty good with a pistol when I was younger. 120 yards with a pistol is a lob shot and no one no matter how skilled is going to make that shot. Sure you can practice and walk it in and start to get into CEP that a hit is possible.

Then you change the background and its a week later? Nope. Start walking it in again. It does not mean you can't hit on first shot, that is pure statistics and luck.

You hear all sorts of terms for a pistolero. Gunfighter being prominant. A pistol is a close in tool. Read up on the average pistol shoot out distance (7 yards) and how many misses occurr.

Sharpshooter is exclusively a rifle shooter (be it a Kentucky Long gun or a Baker or a Sharps).

You don't seem to realize the accuracy potential of an accurate revolver in the hands of a good shooter at 100 yards ! If practiced up they won't need to walk any shots into you especially on anything like a reasonably calm day.
Another thing is long range rifle shots will drift and drop much more than will a revolver shot at 100-120 yards. Sharp shooters of the civil war era were dealing with hugh windage and drop figures as I well know competing for a decade in 600 yard midrange shooting with black powder cartridge guns. The large drop and windage figures didn't make them walk in lob shots as they could often be accurately dialed in very close for the first shot from learning to read wind, light and mirage. Modern snipers do this routinely for first shot hits.

 

[WalnutRed]

I was in the Army in the 80's and we were still issued an unmentionable pistol designed by John Browning. One year I was assigned Range NCO to the pistol range tasked with qualifying young LTs. We got so fed up with hearing how you cannot hit anything with the issued service pistol that I started opening each range session by engaging knock down targets at 75 yds. We chose that range because through trial and error we found that was farthest I could expect to hit 6/7 shots. One of my fellow NCOs could hit clay pigeons on the 100 yd berm 60% of the time. Or at least hit close enough that they broke. However his pistol had been tweaked by him slightly and had non issue sights.

How does this apply to the conversation? John Browning's as designed sights are not a huge improvement over Sam Colts 1851 sights. An improvement yes, but not an earth shaking improvement. Now our targets were not moving. If your target is moving that's a different story.

 

[Smokerr]

No disagreement you can do some interesting things with a pistol.

My brother who served in the Navy had similar experience with the M1, the Range Master had one pulled out at random of the group of the beat up looking M1s and shot expert with it. Just because these look worn does not mean they will not shoot accurately. If you can't hit the target that is on you!

How accurate those old BP revolvers were compared to a modern pistol ? The more you do it the better you get at it but how many rounds shot to do so and then stay proficient?

At those kind of ranges with a pistol (75 yards on out) its not the sights its the ability to estimate what the angle needs to be. I can get pretty close with the first 22 shot at 100 yards, I know how high I have to aim above the Clay Pigeon. Still takes me a few rounds to walk it in, sometimes I get lucky and break one on the first shot but the next 4 miss.

 

[M. De Land]

No disagreement you can do some interesting things with a pistol.

My brother who served in the Navy had similar experience with the M1, the Range Master had one pulled out at random of the group of the beat up looking M1s and shot expert with it. Just because these look worn does not mean they will not shoot accurately. If you can't hit the target that is on you!

How accurate those old BP revolvers were compared to a modern pistol ? The more you do it the better you get at it but how many rounds shot to do so and then stay proficient?

At those kind of ranges with a pistol (75 yards on out) its not the sights its the ability to estimate what the angle needs to be. I can get pretty close with the first 22 shot at 100 yards, I know how high I have to aim above the Clay Pigeon. Still takes me a few rounds to walk it in, sometimes I get lucky and break one on the first shot but the next 4 miss.

I can remember when in my prime of being able to hit a full size silhouette pig at 100 yards over 50 percent of the shots regularly, shooting offhand with a 4 inch Ruger Security six. I was a bit better two handed as I remember but not by much. Wonder why I never tried it with one of my percussion guns, just never occurred to me I guess. Come to think of it I've never tried over 50 yards with a percussion hand gun (25 and 50 yard regulation target distance).
I need to rectify that situation and find out for myself, old age hand tremors and all. My poor old beat up gunsmith and glass worker (glazier) hands are pretty much scar tissue now with some nerve loss but they still work pretty well considering all the abuse they have suffered. Now when I can get my heart health back up to speed again I should be good for a spell.

 

[StoryWriter85]

Nothing Dogmatic about it. Just the facts. Perhaps rather than a passive aggressive you can list some facts?

I am a decent shot, I was pretty good with a pistol when I was younger. 120 yards with a pistol is a lob shot and no one no matter how skilled is going to make that shot. Sure you can practice and walk it in and start to get into CEP that a hit is possible.

Then you change the background and its a week later? Nope. Start walking it in again. It does not mean you can't hit on first shot, that is pure statistics and luck.

You hear all sorts of terms for a pistolero. Gunfighter being prominant. A pistol is a close in tool. Read up on the average pistol shoot out distance (7 yards) and how many misses occurr.

Sharpshooter is exclusively a rifle shooter (be it a Kentucky Long gun or a Baker or a Sharps).

What about 90-100 yards? I understand Sharpshooting involves a rifle. But does a gifted rifleman really have NO transferable skill into pistol shooting?

 

[dickydalton]

The county shooting range here has a gong and a sheep on the back berm of the 50 yard pistol range. Every time I shoot there I regularly ring those gongs..36, .44 and unmentionables alike.

 

[M. De Land]

What about 90-100 yards? I understand Sharpshooting involves a rifle. But does a gifted rifleman really have NO transferable skill into pistol shooting?

Only breath control . Totally different muscle group and sighting technique.