That's why modern wheel guns have full frames------ engineering common sense!
Indeed. Just because a design can be made to work under one set of conditions doesn't mean that it's the best solution for all. Wheels might be great for a Stryker, but if you want to use them on an Abrams, they'll be pretty clumsy in application even if you can make them work.That's why modern wheel guns have full frames------ engineering common sense!
pablo escobar made tens of billions off a faulty productBecause technology advances and there's no need for smokeless cartridge revolvers to have an Open Top design to blow fouling out the top , and a double action swing out cylinder can't be an open top
All the modern thumb busters like Vaqueros are based off the Colt Model P
There are other revolvers that are also open top like the Austrian Gasser which used a powerful, but also blackpowder cartridge
There is just no need for it and it's cheaper to make solid frame revolvers. I'm certain if someone like Ruger decided to make an Open Top .44 Magnum they certainly could do it, it just wouldn't sell because people are used to what's already out there and gunmakers want to make money. Sam Colt didn't die as one of the wealthiest men in America at that time because he made garbage guns with a flawed design.
There were many copies made of the Colt Navy, and they sold well. Manhattan, Cooper , Belgian copies, even the Russians made copies of Colts. No one seemed interested in ripping off the Remington design.
I have no strong opinion either way, I've owned and shot both, I just own way more Colt type revolvers. They are definitely not "weak" or fragile because I have a few I use hard and don't baby, at all and they keep working. In fact I'm convinced I'm trying to wear some of them out just to see if I can.
I could picture it blowing up in the "stronger" open to designI can't even picture an open top 500 S&W mag!!
Sounds like my ex's motto.I've heard its better to be hated than ignored, not so sure about that
Nope, economic common sense.That's why modern wheel guns have full frames------ engineering common sense!
That's why modern wheel guns have full frames------ engineering common sense!
Well, I picture a .500 Magnum open-top revolver having something as big around as a 12ga ammo tube under the barrel to hold it all together. That just doesn't sound like an option foregone in the name of economic sense, rather than engineering sense.Nope, economic common sense.
Mike
So, a cylinder in a top strap revolver is somehow stronger than one in an open top . . . how's that?I could picture it blowing up in the "stronger" open to design
Well, you can picture what you want . . . I'm already shooting ( as a normal diet) some high psi rounds in an Uberti '60 Army with a standard "Italian steel" arbor. It's definitely not out of the question for "Ruger only loads" in a Dragoon platform revolver.Well, I picture a .500 Magnum open-top revolver having something as big around as a 12ga ammo tube under the barrel to hold it all together. That just doesn't sound like an option foregone in the name of economic sense, rather than engineering sense.
Velocity and power . . . see above.The Colt was an amazing design for a percussion, blackpowder revolver but velocity and power of new cartridges rendered this design obsolete. It was expensive to make and there was no reason to keep using this design.
Modern pressures run 20,000 PSI and up, and I don’t think that any arbor is going to hold up to that unless it--and its anchor points--are beefy enough. They can be made that way, but it won't be narrow, and it won't be light.Well, you can picture what you want . . . I'm already shooting ( as a normal diet) some high psi rounds in an Uberti '60 Army with a standard "Italian steel" arbor. It's definitely not out of the question for "Ruger only loads" in a Dragoon platform revolver.
I'm shooting 23K and it's still perfect.Modern pressures run 20,000 PSI and up, and I don’t think that any arbor is going to hold up to that unless it--and its anchor points--are beefy enough. They can be made that way, but it won't be narrow, and it won't be light.
Are you using smokeless?I'm shooting 23K and it's still perfect.
My light loads are 21K.
Mike
This is by no means a "recommendation" but is in fact a "test bed" for exactly what is being discussed here. I've long thought about a "Top grade" Dragoon that would be in the Ruger Blackhawk arena which is where the "bolt lug" arbor setup came into thought. That's being "discussed" among parties . . .I'm shooting 23K and it's still perfect.
My light loads are 21K.
Mike
Of course, it's no secret lol!! All my SA's are unmentionables.Are you using smokeless?
What you are describing is a problem with endshake. It's the main reason / argument for a close tolerance endshake such as .002" - .003" for the Colt platform. Obviously a larger ( .006" and up) endshake leads to many problems.That frame stretching may be another myth. The Colt cylinder has less surface area on the flat than the cylinder on the Remington have. So theoretically the Colt might get loose more soon than a Remington might.That flat part takes the recoil when it slams up against the frame face. When fired the cylinder slams into the face on the frame a moment before the gun recoils. The incessant hammering effect over time can cause the frame face metal to migrate or be pushed away from the frame face. This is more true with the brass frame guns than the steel ones. But mild steel frames will still do it though. So as the metal gets pushed out it makes it look like the frame stretched and the cylinder has a bigger gap. The cylinders seem to be made from a stronger more hard steel than the frames are. Some gunsmiths have repaired brass frame revolvers by machining in a recess in the frame face and gluing in a thin steel washer shim.
You have unmentionable open tops?Of course, it's no secret lol!! All my SA's are unmentionables.
It's much more punishing on "our" type revolvers than bp.
I don't think you can get above 13/14K using bp.
I'm just proving that the open-top is much more the platform than many would give it credit for.
Using the ammo I use makes "testing" the platforms much easier.
Mike
Absolutely. It's what lead up to me tuning revolvers. I can't shoot bp in my county ( outdoors or indoors) so it's drive to another county or to a range 10 minutes from my house . . . I chose the latter !!You have unmentionable open tops?
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