Colt 1860 Vs Remington New Model

[Snake Pleskin]

Well, I started with an 1858, and I shoot a lot of unmentionables that don't allow a full grip, so maybe the 1858 was a more natural fit for me. I got an 1860 because it's another historically common example, and it looks cool, but the grip is actually not as natural to me. But it does look cool--really cool.

The 1860 Army Colt is a "big" pistol. the 1862 Colt is smaller more like the 1851 but with a round smoothed barrel.

 

[Pukatea Bay Boy]

I've settled on these two contenders as my first big bore percussion pistol. I'm probably opening up a hornets nest, but which one would you recommend? Thanks

 

[Pukatea Bay Boy]

Ata Marie, All... I've never seen a Remington. They look great & solid frame has some merit I'd think.
Colts what I'm used to , & they look great as well. & work fine.
I'd like to try a Remington.
Have a awesome day everyone.
I'm off to mahi ( work)

 

[45D]

The Colt looks and feels good but if you're shooting with stock nipples cap jams are a pain. Haven't had any in my Remington---- yet! I still want someone to 'splain to me why modern revolvers aren't open top---- if they're stronger???? I like loading my Remington cylinders off the gun. Fast and easy. Can load conicals that way no problem. Colt feels better but Remington is easy for lazy old farts like me. Here's to easy!

I've only said it a thousand times . . .

They are CHEAPER TO MANUFACTURE.

MIKE

 

[TrapperDude]

Are those UFOs flying in the sky, or what?

 

[Tanglefoot]

My very first BP handgun was an original 1858 Remington, kind of beat up, with a loose front sight. That was back around 1960-61. The grip frame was too small for my paw and the trigger guard beat the whey out of my 2nd finger when it fired. For me, at least, the 1860 Colt fits better
but I do prefer the sights on the Remington. I was always told - back then - that Sam Colt set the sights on his revolvers so that a shooter could aim it at an opponent’s belly and the round would surely strike him somewheres in his upper body, hopefully the chest.
A few days ago, I posted what I recall of some testing we did on various BP revolvers to see how they compared with modern hand guns for stopping power. Several people have commented on our findings. We were surprised at the results at the time, especially that the energy delivered to a target was so low by comparison. We concluded that the relatively high kill rate in the “old days” may have been substantially boosted by poor medical care, non-existent (or at least rare) concern for sterille operating conditions, crude implements, and no treatment for shock or trauma. Infection must have been a huge contributor also, as was the total lack of anesthesia — other than alcohol. It’s interesting that Cole Younger was shot multiple times during the robbery/gunfight in Northfield, Minnesota, was left behind by his cohorts and captured, but survived and died many years later, an old man.

 

[Bad Karma]

I think a lot of people here are just sun-consciously drawn to the steam punk look of open-top platforms. Come on, now. Be honest. It has a certain primitive elegance that you would see in a sci-fi/fantasy airbrushed graphic novel. While I doubt that many here have ever read such novels, the thing that made them cool when I saw them in the late '80s to early '90s is still an element of our respective psyches, and that element has influenced what you all like about the Colts.

The first black powder revolvers I was exposed to as a youngster were my grandfathers 1860’ and various Colt SAA’s. Nothing else has ever seemed right in the near 70 years since. Steampunk…

 

[Stantheman86]

I think a lot of people here are just sun-consciously drawn to the steam punk look of open-top platforms. Come on, now. Be honest. It has a certain primitive elegance that you would see in a sci-fi/fantasy airbrushed graphic novel. While I doubt that many here have ever read such novels, the thing that made them cool when I saw them in the late '80s to early '90s is still an element of our respective psyches, and that element has influenced what you all like about the Colts.

They are beautiful Victorian era revolvers that really are examples of a time when firearms were pieces of art, were hand fitted and Sam Colt ensured each one had a roll engraved cylinder, even during "wartime production " so you knew it was a real Colt. They were also designed to be perfectly balanced, to blow the fouling out the open top rather than back into the gun, they were simple with few moving parts , and they were tough, reliable guns that were used hard .

The Remington is an example of a simple, no frills revolver made with Industrial Revolution technology, designed to be made quickly and for less $$ to compete with Colt.

The Model P had a solid frame because that's what the US Govt wanted, the Colt 1872 open tops did not generate interest from Govt contracts. Even today, gun makers give the Govt what it specifies to win the lucrative contract. Glock was prepared to add an external safety to satisfy the US Govt contract which goes against the whole design but money is money

 

[TDM]

It’s already been mentioned but I’ll mention it again. Switching to SlixShot nipples truly makes a difference on the Colts to minimize or stop cap jams. I have them on my 2 Remingtons too.

 

[TrapperDude]

They are beautiful Victorian era revolvers that really are examples of a time when firearms were pieces of art, were hand fitted and Sam Colt ensured each one had a roll engraved cylinder, even during "wartime production " so you knew it was a real Colt. They were also designed to be perfectly balanced, to blow the fouling out the open top rather than back into the gun, they were simple with few moving parts , and they were tough, reliable guns that were used hard .

The Remington is an example of a simple, no frills revolver made with Industrial Revolution technology, designed to be made quickly and for less $$ to compete with Colt.

The Model P had a solid frame because that's what the US Govt wanted, the Colt 1872 open tops did not generate interest from Govt contracts. Even today, gun makers give the Govt what it specifies to win the lucrative contract. Glock was prepared to add an external safety to satisfy the US Govt contract which goes against the whole design but money is money

It still looks like something Van Helsing would have used, and we all think that's cool, whether we know it or not. It's a primal draw to all of us.

But, with that being said, I would really like to know why the government didn't want an open-top design.

 

[Stantheman86]

It still looks like something Van Helsing would have used, and we all think that's cool, whether we know it or not. It's a primal draw to all of us.

But, with that being said, I would really like to know why the government didn't want an open-top design.

It probably had to do with perceived durability, price, field maintenance, Ordnance Generals thought it was better to "modernize" with solid frame revolvers , however they also accepted S&W's break top design that used a shorter cartridge so there's no rhyme or reason to the Govts criteria a lot of times . It may have been psychological on their part, that they didn't want cartridge open tops because they wanted to move away from "old" designs used in the last war and soldiers would feel better using a "new and improved " revolver. I always found it interesting that Remington cartridge revolvers were never purchased by the Govt when they basically made a cartridge version of the 1858 that was a good gun.

This was the same Govt that thought a repeating rifle like one of the tubular magazine bolt actions they could of chose would result in soldiers firing too fast and wasting ammunition, a mindset that carried over well into the smokeless era with the insistence on magazine cutoffs for rifles. The trapdoor was obsolete as soon as it was accepted but we used them in some Guard units until WWI

Weapons are always selected by old Generals in their 70s who are still fighting a war behind the current one

 

[Stantheman86]

The Colt looks and feels good but if you're shooting with stock nipples cap jams are a pain. Haven't had any in my Remington---- yet! I still want someone to 'splain to me why modern revolvers aren't open top---- if they're stronger???? I like loading my Remington cylinders off the gun. Fast and easy. Can load conicals that way no problem. Colt feels better but Remington is easy for lazy old farts like me. Here's to easy!

Because technology advances and there's no need for smokeless cartridge revolvers to have an Open Top design to blow fouling out the top , and a double action swing out cylinder can't be an open top

All the modern thumb busters like Vaqueros are based off the Colt Model P

There are other revolvers that are also open top like the Austrian Gasser which used a powerful, but also blackpowder cartridge

There is just no need for it and it's cheaper to make solid frame revolvers. I'm certain if someone like Ruger decided to make an Open Top .44 Magnum they certainly could do it, it just wouldn't sell because people are used to what's already out there and gunmakers want to make money. Sam Colt didn't die as one of the wealthiest men in America at that time because he made garbage guns with a flawed design.

There were many copies made of the Colt Navy, and they sold well. Manhattan, Cooper , Belgian copies, even the Russians made copies of Colts. No one seemed interested in ripping off the Remington design.

I have no strong opinion either way, I've owned and shot both, I just own way more Colt type revolvers. They are definitely not "weak" or fragile because I have a few I use hard and don't baby, at all and they keep working. In fact I'm convinced I'm trying to wear some of them out just to see if I can.

 

[gunpa]

I can't even picture an open top 500 S&W mag!!

 

[Stantheman86]

I can't even picture an open top 500 S&W mag!!

The b/c gap flame would be dangerous

 

[TrapperDude]

I can't even picture an open top 500 S&W mag!!

Can you imagine how bulky the arbor's anchor point would have to be?

 

[45D]

I can't even picture an open top 500 S&W mag!!

It would probably look more like a Dragoon . . .

Mike

 

[TrapperDude]

The b/c gap flame would be dangerous

It would look like a flintlock going off, but worse.

 

[Trot]

I might as well put my two cents worth in! Neither one is better, just a little different. It really doesn't matter if one is "stronger", both are more than strong enough. Each design has it's own little quirks, in the end it is nothing but personal preference. I don't have a lot to base any opinion on, a Uberti New Model Army, a Pietta 1851, an old Pietta Griswold and Gunnison, and an Armi San Paolo 1860 army. I like them all, the Remington shoots the best for me, but I really like the old Griswold and Gunnison even though it is the most problematic of the bunch. Get whichever one strikes your fancy and have fun!

 

[Stantheman86]

Can you imagine how bulky the arbor's anchor point would have to be?

With modern steel , it could be done. There's just no reason to

Either way you'll have threads holding the arbor in against the bullet going down the pipe vs the threads of the Barrel doing the same job. The arbor would need to be beefy and screwed into the frame properly

 

[TrapperDude]

With modern steel , it could be done. There's just no reason to

Either way you'll have threads holding the arbor in against the bullet going down the pipe vs the threads of the Barrel doing the same job. The arbor would need to be beefy and screwed into the frame properly

Well, there's also anchoring the barrel assembly to the frame. You'd have to use bolt lugs instead of a wedge like @45D mentioned a whole back in another thread. That would be one fat assembly.