Conical bullets in a cap and ball revolver

[Rfp10000]

The chambers on Pietta .44's are usually around 0.447"-0.448".
0.443" and 0.446" sizers are what I use to make bullet bases to slip into the chambers.

On a side note, some guys ream the chambers to get the ball size to better match the older Pietta barrels.
But wouldn't it be a better mouse trap just to replace the barrel?
In manufacturing at Pietta they've changed their barrels to a faster twist to give better accuracy. For the older revolvers why not just get barrels with a 0.447" groove diameter and a faster twist and length of your choice?

I got some of those Track of the Wolf conicals as well. I have an Uberti NMA which takes a .454 round ball and could probably take a .457 ... I was concerned they were too small but I tried placing one in the muzzle just to check size and it seemed ok mostly ... once it’s lubed and in paper I’ll try loading & firing one.

 

[Lippy984]

He’s also reaming chambers to .456” ... which works very well with the stock Uberti barrel. I believe he charged me $35-45 per cylinder... very reasonable price really.

Does he have a website or contact information?

 

[sawyer04]

They are not called cap and ball for nothing. I have carried and shot a balled revolver since the early 70's. Two years ago I purchased a conical mold because it just looked cool, I just don't see much difference, unless the conical has more knock down power. I load on a bench loader; if I load conical with loading lever it marks the lead. But, conical bullets do look cool in the cylinder.

 

[rodwha]

They are not called cap and ball for nothing. I have carried and shot a balled revolver since the early 70's. Two years ago I purchased a conical mold because it just looked cool, I just don't see much difference, unless the conical has more knock down power. I load on a bench loader; if I load conical with loading lever it marks the lead. But, conical bullets do look cool in the cylinder.

Conicals are all different, but all of them should penetrate more than a ball. The traditional pointy bullets should penetrate the furthest as their point allows flesh to stretch creating a smaller than jan caliber hole. A RN such as the Lee should, in effect, behave rather similar as a ball creating a caliber sized hole (assuming no expansion with these). A wide meplat will still penetrate deeply but creates a larger than caliber hole even at very low speeds.

If you aren’t a hunter I don’t see any reason to want or need a conical for anything but the experience. And even for hunting a ball is no slouch. I live around hogs so I want something ideal and create my own wide flat nosed bullets to optimize what I have.

 

[hawkeye2]

Does he have a website or contact information?

http://www.hahnmachineworks.com/

 

[Lippy984]

http://www.hahnmachineworks.com/

Thank you

 

[mkpatrick]

The chambers on Pietta .44's are usually around 0.447"-0.448".
0.443" and 0.446" sizers are what I use to make bullet bases to slip into the chambers.

On a side note, some guys ream the chambers to get the ball size to better match the older Pietta barrels.
But wouldn't it be a better mouse trap just to replace the barrel?
In manufacturing at Pietta they've changed their barrels to a faster twist to give better accuracy. For the older revolvers why not just get barrels with a 0.447" groove diameter and a faster twist and length of your choice?

So a .451 ball would be better than a .454 ball I presume?

 

[rodwha]

So a .451 ball would be better than a .454 ball I presume?

Not really. There’s plenty of match shooters that use larger balls. There’s also chronographed evidence that it increases the performance as there’s more friction from a longer bearing surface which also gives more for the rifling to bite. Some feel it adds undue stress on the loading system but my Pietta NMA has been fed nothing but .457” balls and .456” conicals, though my chambers were eventually reamed to .449” and chamfered.

 

[nkbj]

So a .451 ball would be better than a .454 ball I presume?

Can be but you'll never know 'til you try.
With larger ball you might find an advantage in chamfering the mouths on the chambers.
Whatever you find works well in your piece.

 

[nkbj]

There's another aspect to shooting round ball that matters to some.
A rifle bored to shoot .451, .454 or .457 round ball is plenty for almost all hunting you'd want to do in North America. I like having a companion piece that shoots the same ammo.

 

[mkpatrick]

Can be but you'll never know 'til you try.
With larger ball you might find an advantage in chamfering the mouths on the chambers.
Whatever you find works well in your piece.

Loading 454's into mine was difficult, I had to really try to get that lever down. They shot fine but I just was hoping I wasn't hurting the gun during the loading process.

 

[mkpatrick]

I keep seeing cylinders for sale on certain sites like Midway and Sportsmans. I have a Pietta.
Some of these Cylinders are from Traditions.
How do I know what will fit and what's good and what's not?

Also a follow up,
Whats the thoughts on the 45 cartridge conversions for these?

 

[hawkeye2]

Traditions are made by Pietta. The last time I looked Cabela's had the best price on cylinders. I have a couple of late mfg. Piettas and 1 extra cylinder. I have had no problems switching any of the cylinders on either frame (and 1 unmentionable cylinder too).

We can't discuss conversions here, I suggest you try some of the Cowboy Action forums.

 

[mkpatrick]

Traditions are made by Pietta. The last time I looked Cabela's had the best price on cylinders. I have a couple of late mfg. Piettas and 1 extra cylinder. I have had no problems switching any of the cylinders on either frame (and 1 unmentionable cylinder too).

We can't discuss conversions here, I suggest you try some of the Cowboy Action forums.

Well I wasn't thinking about doing so, just was wondering how safe it was.

OK so I can buy any Traditions 44 cylinder and put it on my Navy?

 

[hawkeye2]

"OK so I can buy any Traditions 44 cylinder and put it on my Navy?"

I guess you could but why does it have to be a Traditions? Shop around for the best price.

 

[Rfp10000]

I got an Uberti cylinder for a Remmy NMA at Jedidiah Star ... they had Pietas available as well . It was simple to order the cylinder for my exact gun and it fit and works just like the original .

 

[Dmalikhammer4]

There isn't much penetrating going on to get to human vitals.
Look at the human torso and think about it in terms of how the projectiles behave.
At revolver distances round ball is the lighter and faster projectile.
So let's say you have a relatively blunt projectile going faster* than a slower pointy one.
Which one is more likely to do the most grievous damage towards stopping someone more quickly?
It's a no brainer.

From information I can find about the "minié ball," it seems that they were significantly more devastating to the human body than the round ball, which seems to contradict your statement. However, I say seem because these results came from rifles. It is possible, I suppose, that at pistol ranges with pistol charges, the conical is not as game-changing. What do you think? (Hope I'm not too late to the thread).

 

[No second place]

From information I can find about the "minié ball," it seems that they were significantly more devastating to the human body than the round ball, which seems to contradict your statement. However, I say seem because these results came from rifles. It is possible, I suppose, that at pistol ranges with pistol charges, the conical is not as game-changing. What do you think? (Hope I'm not too late to the thread).

This is the pistol forum so, a pistol with a .75cal. 550grn. Ball vs. Pistol with a .575cal. Mini. of 550grns. with the same pistol type charge for stopping power. Maybe 40g of 3f. I know a few hunters who have used these loads in various ML pistols to take deer. Which would be better? My friend who likes his ROA with. 457 ball has no problem taking deer at 15-25yds. Max. Load in camber of 3f Swiss. Most of the Round ball hunters I know are also serious BP competitors also so good shot placement may be part of the reason a patched ball singleshot or ordinary revolver works so well for them...c

 

[Dmalikhammer4]

This is the pistol forum so, a pistol with a .75cal. 550grn. Ball vs. Pistol with a .575cal. Mini. of 550grns. with the same pistol type charge for stopping power. Maybe 40g of 3f. I know a few hunters who have used these loads in various ML pistols to take deer. Which would be better? My friend who likes his ROA with. 457 ball has no problem taking deer at 15-25yds. Max. Load in camber of 3f Swiss. Most of the Round ball hunters I know are also serious BP competitors also so good shot placement may be part of the reason a patched ball singleshot or ordinary revolver works so well for them...c

Honestly, I don't know. I read through the entire thread, even going through all the linked materials. Looked at other forum discussions from the last decade. Civil War soldiers used conicals, so the folks at the time must've saw something that made the conical seem so much better. But today, we're still arguing if it is, so maybe the military leaders falsely believed the conicals were the superior round. We do know they shot further, which is maybe why they pushed for the conical shift quickly even though effective lethal range didn't change too much. I guess we'll never know which round is better.

I'll stick with the cheaper one.

 

[WalnutRed]

When I want to use conical bullets in my 44 Remington copies I use the Lee 452-160RF mold and soft lead. And yes, just to stir the pot, I do use a popsicle stick to smear Bore Butter over the loaded chamber mouths. So a non traditional projectile with a non traditional lubricant.