Conical or PRB IN .50 1 in 24 twist?

[BlazingIron]

I have a .50 cal Ped. Traditional Hawken Hunter with a 1 in 24 twist Will I be able to get any decent accuracy with PRB or am I gonna have to use conicals?

 

[The Appalachian]

1:24 is way too fast for PRB.

 

[BlazingIron]

My thoughts as well.

 

[nkbj]

What do your rifling grooves look like?

 

[Rod Man]

You could shoot a PRB out of it at a reduced charge. Your better off in my opinion going with nice long heavy conical.

RM

 

[hanshi]

If the grooves are fairly deep you should be able to find a prb load that shoots okay. However, any load that does shoot well will likely be in the lower velocities and a lighter powder load. otherwise you're stuck with squirrel prb loads. That twist, especially with shallow grooves, is a rifle for conical shooting.

 

[SDSmlf]

You will not know for sure until you shoot it. Always consider many of ‘rules’ we hear about in muzzleloading to be more like ‘guidelines’ rather than absolutes.

 

[BlazingIron]

Ii’m note sure about the rifling cause I’m not at home. I am afraid tou guy are right about having to go with a conical.

 

[Grenadier1758]

Bear in mind that Jäger Rifles had a twist rate of one turn in the barrel length. These were short barreled rifles with barrels of 24 to 30" in length. When Pedersoli marketed their Jäger rifle, it has a twist rate of 1 in 24" and can achieve reasonable round ball accuracy and take chamois from one Alpine ridge to the next.

 

[Cattywompuss]

It will probably shoot PRB fine. They aren't pool balls, and rifling ain't putting "English" on them. But it should also shoot conical great too. Lucky you!

 

[Ninering62]

1:24 is way too fast for PRB.

100% Absolutely way too fast for PRB’s I’d think. I just got a .50 1:24 specifically for shooting conicals.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

OP: I have a Pedersoli Jaeger with the same 1:24 twist. The grooves are .006 deep, and I would be pretty sure your Hawken will be the same. I have not shot any PRB's out of mine, but have sent some .54 minies downrange. They are dead on accurate. I use the Lee .540 minie mould. The skirts are a nice thickness, so you can really bump up the load without blowing them. Lee also makes a .500 minie ball mould that would work for your rifle.

Your rifle might shoot patched balls without a problem, you just gotta try it. Lots of folks that will tell you something won't work, and have never even tried it themselves, they just look at the numbers and say that's impossible.

I plan to try out patched round balls in my Jaeger as well, I just don't have a RB mold yet. I'm going to start my load as such: a .530 ball, and the thickest patch material I can get down the barrel without overly forcing it. My powder load will start at 40 grains, and I will work my way up in 5-10gr increments until I find my most accurate powder charge. A fast twist will cause the ball and patch to separate in the barrel under heavy charges, so that's why the charge is decreased so much.

Bear in mind that Jäger Rifles had a twist rate of one turn in the barrel length. These were short barreled rifles with barrels of 24 to 30" in length. When Pedersoli marketed their Jäger rifle, it has a twist rate of 1 in 24" and can achieve reasonable round ball accuracy and take chamois from one Alpine ridge to the next.

I never knew the original Jaegers had that fast of a twist. That's interesting. Also makes sense now why the rifling grooves were so deep. To bite into a belted ball or a thick patching material.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

You will not know for sure until you shoot it. Always consider many of ‘rules’ we hear about in muzzleloading to be more like ‘guidelines’ rather than absolutes.

THIS

 

[Loyalist Dave]

I have a .50 cal Ped. Traditional Hawken Hunter with a 1 in 24 twist Will I be able to get any decent accuracy with PRB or am I gonna have to use conicals?

For what it's worth, the recommended bullet for Pedersoli's 1:24 twist barrel Jaeger, from Pedersoli's website, is a .535 patched round ball.
I'd doubt that they would recommend a round ball if it got less performance than a conical, especially when they sell conicals too.
Now their barrel isn't your barrel, but it does show that somebody whose profit margin is based on results thinks their 1:24 twist barrel should shoot round ball.

LD

 

[LME]

You will not know for sure until you shoot it. Always consider many of ‘rules’ we hear about in muzzleloading to be more like ‘guidelines’ rather than absolutes.

I have several books on M.L. rifles/pistols. I used them to guide me on my M.L. trail. I found them to be as accurate with their information as any one would want. The exact load in these books was what has worked for me. I could have wasted a lot of time trying to figure out what a particular load for a particular cal. would work best but my black powder handbook saved me a lot of time. One of the best books was Sam Fadala,s ,"Black Powder Handbook" It has been dead on with the information I used from his book. I also went down the chasing my tail road when I first started shooting these rifles and didn't have any books on the subject. Ironically my choosen loads were exactly the same as I found in the book. With all this said there are reason for inaccurate rifles other than the load but if the rifle doesn't have a physical problem I go by the book.

 

[nkbj]

And then again there's some honkin' .50 diameter off the shelf molds being marketed these days as well.
With a 24" twist you've got a long arm that will do everything but bird shot.

 

[The Appalachian]

Lots of folks that will tell you something won't work, and have never even tried it themselves, they just look at the numbers and say that's impossible.

Yeah, except there are laws of physics that apply.

If 1:24 worked great for PRB then folks who make their living understanding internal ballistics wouldn't suggest the much slower twists would they. Every RB rifle would be 1:24 wouldn't it.

 

[Dusty_Traveler]

Yeah, except there are laws of physics that apply.

If 1:24 worked great for PRB then folks who make their living understanding internal ballistics wouldn't suggest the much slower twists would they. Every RB rifle would be 1:24 wouldn't it.

Physics don't apply in my county

 

[Ninering62]

For what it's worth, the recommended bullet for Pedersoli's 1:24 twist barrel Jaeger, from Pedersoli's website, is a .535 patched round ball.
I'd doubt that they would recommend a round ball if it got less performance than a conical, especially when they sell conicals too.
Now their barrel isn't your barrel, but it does show that somebody whose profit margin is based on results thinks their 1:24 twist barrel should shoot round ball.

LD

Really interesting, thanks for your post.

 

[Siringo]

I HAD a Pedersoli Missouri River in 50 caliber. It had a 1/24 inch twist. I shot just about everything I could in that gun. Very versatile. But, an accurate 50 yard PRB load was elusive. I wanted that just for low recoil short distance shooting. In the end 50 grains of 2F OE did the trick. I used a 0.490 ball and 0.020 patch.

After all sorts of trials with various rifles I have conclude that to get accuracy, fast twist less powder, slow twist more powder.

Maybe someone can answer this, why where short barrels made with fast twists and longer barrels slow twists? There has to be a reason.