Conical Question for Cynthialee (et al)

[Mad Professor]

Hi Ron,

have followed you for years.

I have so many buffalo, HGP. Thousands....

How would PP effect them? pressure , loads, etc.....

I am in the east, 100yds is long, but bullets moving is a concern without PRB.

 

[Idaho Ron]

It is tough to say how they would react to paper patching. All I can say is try. I paper patched some Lyman Great Plains bullets and I was lucky to shoot a 10" group at 50 yards.

 

[Ole Bob]

Thanks again everyone for the response.

Thanks for the video, Ron.

 

[Zonie]

If your thinking about paper patching bullets, just remember, paper patching needs two full turns of paper wrapped around them.

That will add 4 times the paper thickness to the bullets diameter.

If you use common paper that's about .003 thick that will add .012" (12 thousandths) to the size of the slug.

Even if you use a thin paper like the dress pattern paper I use, it's .0015 thickness will add .006 to the bullets diameter.

Also, paper is rather fragile so it can tear easily when it is loaded.

I've found that in using PP bullets in a muzzleloader, the patched slug should be at lest .001 smaller than the bore.

If you lube the paper when you make the bullets, the lube will soften (and weaken) the paper causing it to tear when it's loaded.
It's best to use a thick grease type lube, applied shortly before loading.

 

[cynthialee]

Sorry I missed this thread. I have been mainly busy with friends and family.

I am not the person to ask questions about conicals at all.
Idaho Ron is the man to listen to when it comes to conicals.

I did solve the problem in 2 ways though.
First solution was to use a very tight over shot card. This keeps the conical in place rather well. But my second most brilliant solution was a god send...I only shoot PRB now. :rotf:

 

[Ole Bob]

Sorry I missed this thread. I have been mainly busy with friends and family.

I am not the person to ask questions about conicals at all.
Idaho Ron is the man to listen to when it comes to conicals.

I did solve the problem in 2 ways though.
First solution was to use a very tight over shot card. This keeps the conical in place rather well. But my second most brilliant solution was a god send...I only shoot PRB now. :rotf:

No problem. Hope you had a great time. I just got back from visiting family myself.

I started this journey going the other way ... while I've shot PRB for more years than I care to admit, I've never shot a conical.

I did buy a pack of TC Maxi-balls many years ago, but just never gotten around to shooting them. For a variety of reasons, I figured I'd give 'em a try, but didn't realize they might slide off the powder. Something I'll be keep an eye out for if I don't do the PP thing soon.

Thanks for your reply. And thanks for the original post. You may have saved me a barrel. :hatsoff:

 

[ncmtmike]

When the twist calls for conical or mini.how does one override that and still be able to shoot PRB's? I would love to know that one.

 

[Ole Bob]

When the twist calls for conical or mini.how does one override that and still be able to shoot PRB's? I would love to know that one.

My understanding is you can't, if by "calls for" means a true fast twist (1:18. 1:28. etc.). The twist rate is too fast and over stabilizes the lighter projectile. Likewise, a slower twist that is more suited to a PRB (say 1:66") is great for roundballs, but too slow to stabilize heavier conicals.

If memory servers that is why TC chose a middle of the road twist like 1:48" for thier Hawken and Renegade rifles (at least back when I bought mine it was that rate). I know mine is quite accurate with .490 round balls and .015" pillow ticking patching.

As I said I've not shot conicals out of mine, but have been told by people I trust that they perform well with those. As I've begun to study this, it would seem that the heavier for caliber conicals might not shoot (i.e. stabilize) that well with my 1:48 twist barrel.

But I'm sure others here who have experimented more with conicals can give you a first hand account of their finding.

 

[mooman76]

But you can shoot PRBs in the fast twists. You just can't push them as hard.

 

[ncmtmike]

Both of mine are GPR's 1 is 1:66 the other is 1:32,and I know nothing of the conical or mini,so any suggestions welcome :hmm:

 

[Ole Bob]

Moonman, now that you mention it, I think I may have heard that before. I stand corrected.

mtmike, I'm right there with you. This conical thing is new to me, but it's intriguing.

 

[Idaho Ron]

Moonman, now that you mention it, I think I may have heard that before. I stand corrected.

mtmike, I'm right there with you. This conical thing is new to me, but it's intriguing.

What intrigued me with the paper patching a conical was no lead fouling. every shot is the same because there is not a continual lead building process in the barrel. Once the powder fouling is cleaned out the next shot in the same as the first one. Plus my load in the 50 has the same energy at 250 yards as a 44 mag does at the muzzle. It lays the law down on elk.

 

[Britsmoothy]

That's if one believes a mathematical equation has an effect on living tissue!
Personally I believe ft/lbs is best left for tightening bolts!

 

[Idaho Ron]

And flattening elk.

 

[Rifleman1776]

didn't realize they might slide off the powder.

For me, that is a BIG issue. I tried maxis once and never again. In many parts of the country (those I have hunted in) the mornings start out pretty cold but can get quite warm by afternoon. I found the differences in metal (e.g. steel/lead) can cause even a snug fitting bullet to loosen and slide forward. Very dangerous situation. When I had my ml gunshop I tried to explain this but customers often had the "bigger is better" bug and bought them. I sold them. Now, ask me why I love prb. :wink:

 

[Idaho Ron]

Ask me why I love a paper patched Conical? :blah:

 

[Rifleman1776]

Ask me why I love a paper patched Conical? :blah:

I've always said this is a do yer own thang game.

 

[Idaho Ron]

:thumbsup:

 

[ncmtmike]

OK Idaho Ron,,WHY do you love the paper patched Conical? And while I am curious about that,,,How do you make one? I am still trying to learn at my age :wink:

 

[Idaho Ron]

OK Idaho Ron,,WHY do you love the paper patched Conical? And while I am curious about that,,,How do you make one? I am still trying to learn at my age :wink:

Paper patching protects the bullet from the barrel and fire. It protects the barrel from the lead, just like a patch on a PRB.

If you use a paper patch with a conical you don't have a increasing layer of lead building up in the barrel. Lead will build up with each shot. With each shot it will change how the bullet will react to being shot. So you have an accuracy level that is always changing. That is not good for overall accuracy.One thing a paper patched bullet it is consistent.

The accuracy and consistency of a paper patched bullet the biggest reason I like them. Then you add that a paper patched bullet that is sized right will not move off the powder like some conicals will and there is no reason not to use them if a guy wants to shoot a conical.

I like to tune the hardness of my bullets to increase the accuracy and game stopping ability of the bullets. This also increases the confidence that I have in the rifle and load.

Here is a video of how I wrap them. It is easier to watch it than for me to type it.

https://youtu.be/RmARVEFJbr0