Conical Range??

[DeRoche117]

What range should I expect when shooting conicals? I have a T/C Renegade .58 and have been shooting the 555 Maxiball. Started at 25 yrds on stix and got great results at 85gr ffg Goex. Moved back to 65 yards and onto a bench and wow, a clover leafed group grew to a seven inch group with more than the occasional flyer. Tried to keep the variables down as best I could (grip/swabbing/sight pic etc). Am I expecting way too much with such a heavy bullet? Are these as graceful as a coffee table flying through the air?

 

[BrownBear]

You may be experiencing the fact that variables might only move a bullet a little at close range, but a lot as the range stretches.

I have a couple of 58 Big Boars and a Hawken with the GM 58 cal drop-in barrel, and I try to do all my bench work with mine at 75 yards because that's where I'm sighted in. It will teach you more than you want to know about consistency in load and technique.

I've done a fair bit of shooting with that Maxi and several other conicals, and you should be able to get 3" or so at 75 yards if I can. I make no claims to being a great shooter, but when I do everything right I can usually manage that good and often beat it. Some guys on here do a whole lot better and a lot farther away.

 

[gmww]

What range should I expect when shooting conicals? I have a T/C Renegade .58 and have been shooting the 555 Maxiball. Started at 25 yrds on stix and got great results at 85gr ffg Goex. Moved back to 65 yards and onto a bench and wow, a clover leafed group grew to a seven inch group with more than the occasional flyer. Tried to keep the variables down as best I could (grip/swabbing/sight pic etc). Am I expecting way too much with such a heavy bullet? Are these as graceful as a coffee table flying through the air?

Your question will depend on what your wanting to use it for. Big game, target shooting? I can hit targets a distance out there but I keep my big game shooting to 80 yards and under with 80 yards being rare.

 

[n8dawg6]

you might try increasing the powder charge. that maxi will be going pretty slow with 85 g. of 2F goex. i think T/C built it for using up to 120 g. of 2F goex. i have a .58 big boar as well. the problem is that the .58 shoots such heavy projectiles ... especially the conicals ... that you need a lot of powder to get them going fast enough to optimally stabilize. i shoot roundballs out of mine, but have noticed those generally prefer a more hefty charge as well (mine likes the swiss powder, which is pretty hot).

the downside to me about the big boar is that i don't like shooting it with more than a 90 g. powder charge or so. the recoil becomes uncomfortable to me.

from my experience you ought to be able to get 3" to 4" groups at that range. it's tough for me to do much better with the blocky T/C sights, though. still, that sounds like about half the group size you're getting

 

[Stumpkiller]

Anything over 800 yards for target is pressing the envelope. The Creedmore Range, for blackpowder conicals, was 1,000 yards. :haha:


Seriously, you should expect 6" groups at 150 yards benchrested or something is not right with your load and conical choice. Some rifles just do not like certain conicals - weight to length for the barrel twist or materials, muzzle velocity/powder charge, bore fit, etc. I could never get R.E.A.L.s to shoot but others swear by them.

 

[BrownBear]

i have a .58 big boar as well. the problem is that the .58 shoots such heavy projectiles ... especially the conicals ... that you need a lot of powder to get them going fast enough to optimally stabilize.

I've never seen anything official in print, but I'm convinced there's something to what you're saying. The Big Boar has a 1:48 twist, and it just seems to want more powder with conicals. The accuracy improvement in going from 80 grains of 2f to 100 grains of 2f is startling in both my guns. I'm with you on the recoil and have no interest in theoretical accuracy with 120 grains, because I sure won't be shooting that load out of a light gun!

I have an Investarms 58 with 1:48 twist that performs much the same way. I also have a custom 58 with a 1:32 twist, and it's a tack driver with conicals even down at 60 grains.

Food for thought Old School. Have you tried upping your charge incrementally? I won't claim 100 grains is fun on the shoulder, but improved accuracy is fun too.

One other "stunt" to try is putting a lubed felt wad between your maxi and the powder. It always improves accuracy for me with LEE REAL conicals, but one of my Big Boars likes it with the Maxi, and the other doesn't seem to know the difference.

 

[Horizontal Hunter]

What range should I expect when shooting conicals? I have a T/C Renegade .58 and have been shooting the 555 Maxiball. Started at 25 yrds on stix and got great results at 85gr ffg Goex. Moved back to 65 yards and onto a bench and wow, a clover leafed group grew to a seven inch group with more than the occasional flyer. Tried to keep the variables down as best I could (grip/swabbing/sight pic etc). Am I expecting way too much with such a heavy bullet? Are these as graceful as a coffee table flying through the air?

You might try putting a bore button between the powder and the maxiball. I did that on my .50 (1:48 twist)and it tightened up my groups.

Bob

 

[n8dawg6]

i have a .58 big boar as well. the problem is that the .58 shoots such heavy projectiles ... especially the conicals ... that you need a lot of powder to get them going fast enough to optimally stabilize.

I've never seen anything official in print, but I'm convinced there's something to what you're saying. The Big Boar has a 1:48 twist, and it just seems to want more powder with conicals. The accuracy improvement in going from 80 grains of 2f to 100 grains of 2f is startling in both my guns. I'm with you on the recoil and have no interest in theoretical accuracy with 120 grains, because I sure won't be shooting that load out of a light gun!

yep, that has been the big boar experience for me. it's just a powder-hungry gun, more so than my .54's or .50's. that's how i ended up running roundballs in it ... its the lightest projectile you can get for it. heavy charges in the gun got me back to the face-slapping recoil (from that straight T/C stock) that i first experienced with a .54 renegade.

i still remember the T/C advertisements for the big boar back in the early 90's. they advocated the 555 g maxi with 120 g of 2F. i remember seeing some ads with Don Kettlecamp taking a water buffalo with that combo in africa.

 

[Kentuckywindage]

i'd try using a lubed wad.

 

[larry wv]

I have a Investarms . 58 Hawken. With 105 grains of 3f it will hold about a 3 inch group at 100 yards. This is with a real good rest and the 555 grain Maxi Ball. It was easy to do 15 or so years ago. Not so easy now that I am older. I have started useing 105 grains of 2f and it isn't quite as accurate but recoil is a lot better. Last time I Elk hunted with it I used 10 grs of 3f and 95 2f and it shot good enough. Larry Wv

 

[Jason Lewis]

i assume that you are wiping between shots, in case you arent' do it the same way every time. may i suggest the same techique many of us long range shooters use. 1 wet patch, wiping up and down untill you can clean to the breach, then two dry patches up and down 5 times for each patch.

the twist for your gun is probably appropriate given the caliber. you are probably just pushing it too slow. if you have access to swiss get some 2F and start at 80grains and work your way up. another thing to consider is that your nipple will become burn out way too fast pushing that much lead. switch it out to a new nipple or better yet get a platinum lined one.

 

[Jason Lewis]

Anything over 800 yards for target is pressing the envelope. The Creedmore Range, for blackpowder conicals, was 1,000 yards.

naw, 800 yrds is more like a glorified midrange, we regularly shoot at 1,000yrds and in a couple of matches shoot to 1,200yrds.

800 is really no differant than 600yrds.

 

[William O.]

I have a 50 caliber Great Plains Hunter barrel and it's very accurate with the 250 grain REAL bullet and up to 95 grains but it's not fun on the shoulder. 75 yards is about the farthest away I'm willing to take a shot at but it will do 2 inch groups from a bench rest. My groups tightened up considerably with the addition of a lubed Wonder Wad so I would see if yours does as well. I would also find a ligther conical to try and see if that works better.

 

[wahkahchimaol.com]

Medic...where is this long range match, and is there film? I want to see this. I'm learning to shoot modern long range, and the idea of floating a .58 bullet out there to 1,200 yards is quite daunting. That's a long hang time.

 

[ResearchPress]

the idea of floating a .58 bullet out there to 1,200 yards is quite daunting.

Overly optimistic for a .58. Here in the UK we target shoot with .577 cal Enfields out to 800 yards. It's not pin-point accuracy, but is fun and rewarding and gives a great insight as to the capabilities of these military rifles in controlled conditions. Thinking of the target as an artillery crew though, then they would have been having hell!

Target shooting out to 1200 yards is with .45 cal muzzle loading match rifles.

David

 

[Jason Lewis]

Medic...where is this long range match, and is there film? I want to see this. I'm learning to shoot modern long range, and the idea of floating a .58 bullet out there to 1,200 yards is quite daunting. That's a long hang time.

david beat me too it, but i should have specified, the long range rifles are the .45 long range muzzleloading match rifles. the bullet flight time it 3.5 to 4 seconds to 1200.

shooting USA has done a show about the NMLRA long range match at camp atterbury. i'm sure if you google it you can find the video. that was my first long range match. lots of fun.

 

[DeRoche117]

My goal is to try and achieve an accurate load so can take this gun on a June bear hunt in New Brunswick. I promised myself I would not take this gun on the hunt unless I was 100% confident with it and therefore plan on shooting it all winter. The outfitter said the range for gun stands would be 50-75 yrds.
I've had two range sessions so far with this gun. First started at 70 gr 2f. Worked up 5gr at a time and whammo, at 85 gr the magical cloverleaf group appeared and I quit for the day. Even reported my findings to the wife who could care less!!!

Yesterday started with 85gr at 25 yrds again to make sure it wasn't a fluke. Same results so back to 65 I went. Figured I needed more powder at that distance so I jumped right to 100gr. Shots were 6-7" at best with no particular grouping pattern. Might not call it a group at all. Bumped up to 105 gr and same thing. Went back down to 85 gr just for the hell of it. Left scratching my head.

BTW, between all shots I would wipe with both sides of a wet patch then give it one side of a dry. Also, I've heard stories of Renegade stocks splitting at high powder charges so I'm hesitant to go much higher. Unsure if the stories are BS?

 

[BrownBear]

Depending on how old you are, the biggest deterrent to long range groups may be sighting errors. I know that's sure the case for me without using just the right target. Old eyes in my case.

As for Renegade stocks having an inherent tendency to split? I sure wouldn't buy a used car from your source. Heck I wouldn't take it if he was giving it away! :bull:

 

[Stumpkiller]

:hmm: I have a 1982 Renegade that's unsplit.

But then I don't set it on the ground and pound ubertight patched balls in with a hammer or even the palm of my hand smacking the short starter as I have seen some do.

 

[aeatwood]

Dear LORD! I would drop back and use a .58 PRB for bear. 100-110 gr should do a great job, and not smack the snot out of you every time you pull the trigger.

BTW, if you insist on the conical, try backing down to the 85gr load that worked at 25. I think you might have blown it w/ that 15 grain jump. That will shoot plenty flat enough for a 70 yard shot.