Conical recommendations

[tg]

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
and I did not say a damned on this thread! my work is done :hatsoff: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

 

[William O.]

Thanks. Got my first BP (Goex ffG) just this afternoon. Also picked up some precut and lubed .018 T/C ticking patches. Anxious to shoot up the PA conicals (got to, I couldn't stand to have them laying around as a temptation and to frugal to just throw them away) and get to work optimizing with the PRB.

I am the same way, can't stand to waste anything. I've tried the PA conicals/ball-ets in my muzzle loaders and they gave decent accuracy in both 50 and 54 calibers but I've come to realize that a RB is particulaly accurate and effective. I have a Great Plains Hunter fast twist barrel that likes the Lee REAL bullets but it still doesn't give me quite the accuracy I can get using the slow twist/RB barrel.

 

[goody]

I was on the forum last night,and when I got on tonight I had to agree to the rule change, so I guess it happened today?

 

[jethro224]

Having to click on the rule agreement was due to a forum re-set.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/showtopic.php?tid/258939/pid/1013649/post/last/m/1/#LAST

 

[jethro224]

Hard to keep up if they're going to make new rules.

The rules have to be changed to keep up with the changing world. They will keep coming up with new stuff that is not against the rules but is not in the traditional spirit. The rules will most likely change again sooner or later.
As far as the recent rule change about conicals goes it was not that big of a change in words. There was no change at all in the focus of the Muzzleloading Forum.


Old rule:

We do not discuss sabots, powerbelts, or other 'plastic-wrapped' bullets.

New rule:

We do not discuss copper and/or jacketed, plastic/polymer tipped bullets, sabots, power belts, or other 'plastic-wrapped' bullets.

 

[Pete Gaimari]

Don't take what I said out of context.

When I said that I was responding to Swamp saying the rules are clear.

Yes, they are, but if something changes we should be notified. I don't think we're expected to read the rules everyday to see if there's some changes.

Just saying.

 

[jethro224]

I don't believe I took anything out of context.
What you said had been quoted about a half-dozen times. It was a pretty simple one-sentence statement.

I was responding to that statement.

Now I will respond to this one:

...if something changes we should be notified. I don't think we're expected to read the rules everyday to see if there's some changes.

Zonie notified everyone in this topic that the rule had been changed.
I tried to clarify what changes were made.
Now, everybody stick to it.

Just saying.

 

[Zonie]

I think the rules are fairly easy to understand.

Solid lead bullets are acceptable for discussion. We even took the trouble to not prohibit hollow point bullets because several of the currently made solid lead slugs use that feature.

Copper jacketed bullets were not in common use during the Civil War or prior to it. To the best of our knowledge other metal jackets were not in use either.

As the cutoff date for discussion on the forum is up to the end of the Civil War things like plastic bases, sleeves or tips and solid copper bullets did not exist then so they are excluded now.

As for synthetic black powders, for many of our members they are a necessary item. They load and shoot almost like the real thing so we allow discussions about them.

Sorry if that stance offends anyone but, if this upsets someone I'm sure they can find other forums to visit.

 

[Kapow]

Told you it was a dangerous question...

Haven't used these but i do like the look of them:
http://www.parkerproductionsinc.com/agora/agora.cgi?product=Bore_Size&ppinc=1a


I like the look of the traditional hunter, but they are a bit expensive. Still, if you were only hunting with them and had a similar weight cheaper bullet to play with, you could live with it.

 

[Dave Rosenthal]

I think the rules are fairly easy to understand.

Solid lead bullets are acceptable for discussion. We even took the trouble to not prohibit hollow point bullets because several of the currently made solid lead slugs use that feature.

Copper jacketed bullets were not in common use during the Civil War or prior to it. To the best of our knowledge other metal jackets were not in use either.

As the cutoff date for discussion on the forum is up to the end of the Civil War things like plastic bases, sleeves or tips and solid copper bullets did not exist then so they are excluded now.

As for synthetic black powders, for many of our members they are a necessary item. They load and shoot almost like the real thing so we allow discussions about them.

Sorry if that stance offends anyone but, if this upsets someone I'm sure they can find other forums to visit.

Personally, I'm glad that the Rules have been updated and made even more clear. Thanks to Claude and all of the Mods! I always thought that by talking about those "funny bullets" with the "thingys" on the bottom of them (or the top for that matter) members were obfuscating the intention of the Mission Statement of this Site.

In all of the years I've shot, the only time I've seen those things show-up on the range is when someone is using an "unmentionable" firearm. Nobody I know takes-on a (20) shot Match COF with them cause the fourth round (with that French word on the bottom that isn't metal) can't get down the muzzle without major cleaning :idunno: .

Dave

 

[Pete Gaimari]

100 shots can be loaded easily, but here we are talking about them again.

 

[tg]

I will chime in just to renew the fact that one can easily take all NA game with traditional gear such as PRB and bullets that were around during the second quarter of the 19th century, there is no need to seek an advantage with the modern technolgy used in current bullet R&D, it boils down to the old talk the talk and walk the walk mindset when it comes to the terminology we try to attatch to the modern stuff, be it bullets or other things, botton line is that gaining an advantage over the old stuff is the reason behind using the new, again I hope I have upset someone, it may cause them to give this some serious thought, and it is not really not so much about what someone uses but more of what someone tries to pass a modern item off as. Fire away, but most likley anyone strongly in favor of the modern stuff being called traditional just 'cause they like it is allready neatly tucked into a lead box :v

 

[longcruise]

I couldn't stand to have them laying around as a temptation and to frugal to just throw them away) and get to work optimizing with the PRB.

Hey Bill, one of your first steps in optimizing with round ball is to get yourself a mould. Take those semi conicals and throw em into a pot to make round balls! Might save you the trouble of removing some lead from the bore.

 

[longcruise]

Haven't used these but i do like the look of them:

That could be an ideal .50 cal conical. May not fly well in a 1:48 twist but certainly in a 1:32 or faster.

Gonna hurt on both ends! :haha:

 

[bkisel]

I couldn't stand to have them laying around as a temptation and to frugal to just throw them away) and get to work optimizing with the PRB.

Hey Bill, one of your first steps in optimizing with round ball is to get yourself a mould. Take those semi conicals and throw em into a pot to make round balls! Might save you the trouble of removing some lead from the bore.

Wow, I've got a lot to learn about this traditional muzzleloading stuff. Here I thought that pulling the trigger is what saved me the trouble of removing lead from the bore. :wink: Thanks for the suggestion. I'll have to count the cost in both time and money before starting yet another "hobby".

 

[Kentuckywindage]

I will chime in just to renew the fact that one can easily take all NA game with traditional gear such as PRB and bullets that were around during the second quarter of the 19th century, there is no need to seek an advantage with the modern technolgy used in current bullet R&D, it boils down to the old talk the talk and walk the walk mindset when it comes to the terminology we try to attatch to the modern stuff, be it bullets or other things, botton line is that gaining an advantage over the old stuff is the reason behind using the new, again I hope I have upset someone, it may cause them to give this some serious thought, and it is not really not so much about what someone uses but more of what someone tries to pass a modern item off as. Fire away, but most likley anyone strongly in favor of the modern stuff being called traditional just 'cause they like it is allready neatly tucked into a lead box :v

99% of the barrels used by members here are modern day steel and not PC material.

 

[jethro224]

I will chime in just to renew the fact that one can easily take all NA game with traditional gear such as PRB and bullets that were around during the second quarter of the 19th century, there is no need to seek an advantage with the modern technolgy used in current bullet R&D, it boils down to the old talk the talk and walk the walk mindset when it comes to the terminology we try to attatch to the modern stuff, be it bullets or other things, botton line is that gaining an advantage over the old stuff is the reason behind using the new, again I hope I have upset someone, it may cause them to give this some serious thought, and it is not really not so much about what someone uses but more of what someone tries to pass a modern item off as. Fire away, but most likley anyone strongly in favor of the modern stuff being called traditional just 'cause they like it is allready neatly tucked into a lead box :v

99% of the barrels used by members here are modern day steel and not PC material.

:snore: :dead:
The cost and availability of original barrels or those made of original materials prohibits their general use. Modern-day-steel barrels of the same design as an original offers no advantage to the shooter. The discussion of barrels made of modern-day-steel is not against forum rules.

Can we get back on topic now?

 

[Kentuckywindage]

oh come now! You saying that the barrels engineering inside of the bore doesnt offer an advantage of the crude work inside the bore they had back then? I find that hard to believe.

Todays steel barrels are just another upgrade from the original. Kind of like the powerbelts plastic gas cup replacing the original zinc seal used back then.

 

[jethro224]

Honestly I don't think the "work inside the bore they had back then" was "crude". Sure, it was done by hand. Hand-made does not = crude in my opinion.
And no, I do not believe there is any advantage in a factory-made modern-steel barrel using open iron sights and traditional projectiles over an original barrel using the same style sights and projectiles.
That is my opinion. Others opinions may vary.

 

[hoochiepapa]

I know a guy and his son who make traditional barrels. I asked the price, and very few of us could afford to use one to build a gun.
$8,000!
That's why modern steel is used.