Conical sliding forward

[cowboysteve]

Hi guys! I know this has been talked about before, but I can't seem to find the links. I noticed today while hunting late season elk that the conical bullet is sliding forward when I tip the muzzle down. Can't have that! I'm shooting home cast Lyman "Plains Bullets" on top of a wonder wad over the powder. It's engaging the rifling nicely, and I'm getting very tight groups with it.
The only solution I can come up with is to smear the bottom of the bullet with a light film of the SPG Lube I am using on the bullets. It's sticky so it's keeping the bullet stuck to the wad so it can't slide forward. Do you folks have other ideas?

 

[Zonie]

If you have a tight fitting wad, you could ram one or two down on top of the slug to help hold it in place.

On firing, I'm sure those over-wads would be more than happy to get out of the big slugs way as it went roaring downrange.

 

[cowboysteve]

I thought about trying that, but was concerned that it might affect accuracy. I guess it's back to the target range for some trials.

 

[coloradoclyde]

You could try a different, more sticky or harder lube in the grooves....maybe pan lube.

You could have a machinist increase the diameter of the top band..

You could switch to a patched round ball..... :wink:

 

[pchwcf50110]

Easy fix is use a paper cross patch when loading on a clean barrel.

 

[coloradoclyde]

What kind of paper? Onion skin, or have you tried cigarette papers?

 

[cowboysteve]

"You could switch to a patched roundball"... Thanks for the suggestion, but I have plenty of roundball rifles to use. I've found that Elk can soak up a lot of lead and keep on moving in dense timber. And heaven help you if you hit a heavy bone with a roundball. The lead conical is a freight train of whomp.

 

[coloradoclyde]

Like this?

 

[mooman76]

Carry you gun muzzle up helps too.

 

[coloradoclyde]

I think I would give 451 whitworth's idea a try.....

 

[cowboysteve]

Definitely looks like it's worth trying. Probably eliminate potential lead fouling as well.

 

[Vaino]

Used to hunt w/ a .50 cal. TC Hawken using Buffalo Bullets and they did come off the charge w/ a clean bbl. Tried tamped newspaper on top of the conical and the superb accuracy went to pot. Had to constantly "monitor" where the damn conical was while elk hunting which wasn't conducive to "peace of mind".

My solution....built a .54 Hawken using a PRB....Fred

 

[Billnpatti]

It's been a long time since I used any kind of conical bullet. I used to occasionally shoot either a T/C Maxi Ball or a Buffalo Bullet in my .50 cal. rifles. I never encountered the problem of the bullet sliding off the powder. I am just guessing but I'll bet your bullet is slightly undersized. If you are casting your own bullets, the size of the bullet is effected by the lead alloy. Your mold is made to cast a bullet of the specified size using pure lead. If you use anything other than pure lead, it can, and often does, shrink on cooling to a few thousandths smaller size than the mold says it will be. Check the diameter of your bullets with an accurate micrometer to be sure that they are the size that they are supposed to be and that you are using the correct size bullet for your particular rifle. When a bullet is of the correct size and fully engages the rifling, it should not slide off the charge. Have you considered going to a larger caliber such as a .54 or a .58 or even a .62 and using patched round balls. A round ball of that size has a lot of what one of our members refers to as "Whompability". Of course those larger calibers will have more whomp on the back end, too.

 

[mooman76]

Actually when you use an alloyed lead it drops slightly larger rather than smaller.

 

[Vaino]

Once the conical is in the bore, the rifling and bore dia. are engraved into the conical and seeing lead doesn't compress and spring back. it becomes loose in a clean bbl. Have tried Maxi-Balls and the Buffalo Bullets and they both will slide forward in a clean bbl. Have had both conicals "go up the clean bbl" by a foot or so which is very disturbing in that my elk loads could have bulged the bbl. This situation isn't imagined...it's for real and the .54 PRB was the only solution.....Fred

 

[Idaho Ron]

I have been paper patching hunting bullets for a LONG time. I do the regular two wraps of 9# onion skin. The bullets are easy to carry for back up shots and they don't slide off the powder.

 

[Idaho Ron]

I'm shooting home cast Lyman "Plains Bullets" on top of a wonder wad over the powder. It's engaging the rifling nicely, and I'm getting very tight groups with it.
The only solution I can come up with is to smear the bottom of the bullet with a light film of the SPG Lube I am using on the bullets. It's sticky so it's keeping the bullet stuck to the wad so it can't slide forward. Do you folks have other ideas?

I tried that bullet in my 1-28 twist rifles. That bullet never shot well for me. The mould is supposed to be at .508" diameter. Mine was .504 at best. I tried everything to get it to throw .508 and it never did. I sent it back and they said .504 was okay. My green mountain barrels like a larger bullet. I even tried paper patching the Lyman and I never shot a group smaller than 6" at 50 yards. I gave up on that bullet, sold it, and moved on. I hated that mould.

 

[Snow on the Roof]

Ron, where do you find onion paper? Art
supply?

 

[fleener]

Buffalo Arms has a supply of paper that quite a few people use.

I bought a box off of ebay. The paper is quite old and is airmail paper

Fleener

 

[cowboysteve]

You are right. I cast some with wheel weights, for added penetration, and they cast larger. Had to load with a rubber mallet, but dang they were accurate. Went back to pure lead for loading in the field. They engrave the rifling nicely, but with a clean barrel the were sliding forward. The stickier lube seems to have eliminated it.

I have a .58 cal roundball rifle being built as an option to set the concial rifle aside.