Coning Question

[rabjr]

Was just a gimmick that sold guns.

 

[daperdon69]

Kinda makes you wonder just what in the cornbread TC thought they were doing with the gas by-pass in a "QLA".

I think the idea behind the "QLA" is to aid in loading the conical bullet. This idea lets you engrave the rifeling into the bullet and protects and keeps the base of the bullet square to the bore when you short start the bullet.
Also,when the bullet is forced into the rifelings and pushed on top of powder charge, it helps keep the bullet from moveing off the powder charge while walking around in the woods hunting.

A barrel that has a "QLA" done to it is plenty accurate for hunting. Haven't missed an animal yet useing this system. Four shots, Four Elk.
Any way thats my opinion

Tradegunner

I agree...I have one and its accurate enough....I dont see how the gas blow by would be any differant then when the ball actually leaves the barrel....That being said, I wouldnt do it on purpose but then I dont think I would "cone" either. :idunno:

Ah. so you gentlemen have experienced no accuracy problems related the QLA, one of the most extreme conings known to man? That's encouraging. Still trying to get mine to shoot.

Let me try to clear something up. The "QLA" system which stands for "QUICK LOAD ACCURIZOR" is a product of the "FALSE MUZZLE DESIGN" (straight and parralel to the bore). It is not a CONED MUZZLE!! (Which is tapered)

I think TC started doing this to make it easyer to load conical and the sabot bullet.

I don't think the systems was intended for one hole groups. Just to make loading easyer.

If your trying to get your's to shoot, try putting some powder in first. :rotf: :rotf: Just kidding.

Tradegunner

 

[dbutch]

Kinda makes you wonder just what in the cornbread TC thought they were doing with the gas by-pass in a "QLA".

I think the idea behind the "QLA" is to aid in loading the conical bullet. This idea lets you engrave the rifeling into the bullet and protects and keeps the base of the bullet square to the bore when you short start the bullet.
Also,when the bullet is forced into the rifelings and pushed on top of powder charge, it helps keep the bullet from moveing off the powder charge while walking around in the woods hunting.

A barrel that has a "QLA" done to it is plenty accurate for hunting. Haven't missed an animal yet useing this system. Four shots, Four Elk.
Any way thats my opinion

Tradegunner

I agree...I have one and its accurate enough....I dont see how the gas blow by would be any differant then when the ball actually leaves the barrel....That being said, I wouldnt do it on purpose but then I dont think I would "cone" either. :idunno:

Ah. so you gentlemen have experienced no accuracy problems related the QLA, one of the most extreme conings known to man? That's encouraging. Still trying to get mine to shoot.

Good Cheer just 2 words of advice..".Green Mountain"

 

[Kentuckywindage]

QLA helps aid in loading sabots/conicals. TC uses a 3/4" QLA and on their plastic rifles, they are the worse when it comes to shooting full bore projectiles. Funny as heck when you call TC and they tell you their rifles wont shoot conicals because the 1:28 twist is to fast :youcrazy: Or maybe its due to them putting that QLA off center? Some of their rifles ive seen at bass pro or the sportsmans warehouse are just horrible when you inspect the QLA on them.

 

[rabjr]

Sad what they have become. As far as production guns go, they were the gun everyone wanted back in 70's and 80's but not everyone could afford.

 

[nkbj]

The one I have with QLA is a New Englander 54.
The bottom of the QLA was made as square as the counterbore on a bolt hole. This appeared to be rather goofy for the entrance to a muzzleloading barrel so I called TC. And found out that was normal (for them). Since then I have tinkered with means of creating an angle when I've had time to mess with it.
And, yep, I've got my suspicions about the QLA having a deterimental effect on accuracy.
Maybe this would be the perfect candidate for a .47 bore transplant.

 

[smokehouseman]

Amen Tradegunner, that's the bottom line 4 X 4!!

 

[rmonday2]

Did this post realy begin on 9/10/07

 

[jerrywh]

I have coned dozens of barrels on the guns I built. In all cases it either had no effect on accuracy at all or it improved the accuracy. The majority of the time the accuracy was improved.
It is imperative that the coning tool have a pilot so as to keep it perfectly centered in the bore. If it doesn't good results will be purely accidental. Do not make a coning tool out of aluminum. Brass is best but wood will do for a one time deal.
The easier a ball starts the less it is prone to be deformed. Also coning will prevent the patch from being hurt while loading.

 

[MSW]

what that last fellow said ...

I would be willing to bet that the reputation (unjustly, in my mind) that coning a barrel will spoil accuracy is a result of poorly done workmanship: "shade tree Joe" builders allowing the cone to get off axis. This will, of course, adversely effect accuracy. If the coning tool is kept concentric to the bore, I don't see how it can have this effect.

Just one guy's free opinion, and no doubt well worth the price.

 

[Robby]

I can't remember the issue, but Muzzleblast Magazine, Bevel Brothers did a test on this subject. The barrels were coned in a lathe, as precise as possible, and the results were that accuracy was affected, and not in a positive way.
Its a manure shoot. But as always, people should do what they feel is right for them.
Robby

 

[zimmerstutzen]

Amen.

Match shooters aspire to perfect muzzle crowns by using false muzzles so the muzzles are as perfectly square as possible and Coning "improves accuracy"? :rotf: :rotf:

Simple, how many coned muzzle guns won or placed at Friendship?

Coning makes reloading marginally easier. That is all.

I paid extra money for a special choke bore target barrel. Coning could only detract from accuracy.

I wonder how many shooters think coning helps in reloading because their patch ball combo is excessively tight in the first place.

 

Who would take coning advice from someone who has never coned a barrel? :rotf:

 

[rabjr]

I'm no match shooter, will never see Friendship...I am a hunter and prefer a conned barrel of which all of my guns are. They also happen to shoot better than I can hold them. Maybe not match accurate but damn accurate. Which is just fine for deer. So one should ask themselves what they want the gun for before deciding whether to cone it or not.

 

[Dphar]

Amen.

Match shooters aspire to perfect muzzle crowns by using false muzzles so the muzzles are as perfectly square as possible and Coning "improves accuracy"? :rotf: :rotf:

Simple, how many coned muzzle guns won or placed at Friendship?

Coning makes reloading marginally easier. That is all.

I paid extra money for a special choke bore target barrel. Coning could only detract from accuracy.

I wonder how many shooters think coning helps in reloading because their patch ball combo is excessively tight in the first place.

Or they lack the experience to tell a good crown from a poor/marginal one.
Surprisingly tight combos can be loaded if the barrel has a good crown. Few people shoot tighter than I do, ball .005 under bore and a .018" cotton ticking patch.

I have shot and hunted with MLs for well over 40 years and have never seen any reason to cone one.
I did put a slight cone on my son's pistol, he was about 13 at the time.
This is about as far as I would go, this is a hunting rifle but the owner also expects it to shoot. Paying someone for a tool to hog out the rifling at the muzzle is silly without testing. Since Bevel Bros apparently DID test and coning DID effect accuracy, something that would be obvious if one thinks through the process, its a no brainer for me. Another friend coned a barrel and ended up cutting it off to restore accuracy.
The coning proponents are quick to claim no accuracy loss but posting before or after results would be more impressive. 10-20 shots before or after would be informative, after finding the most accurate load.
But people will do what they want and believe what is convenient to them. Testing might get in the way.
BTW, for those "I only hunt" types I often shoot my hunting rifles in competition. Lots of people seem to look down their noses at such activity, shooting for prize money, but there is a GREAT deal to be learned about accuracy, wind drift etc etc when doing this. Shooting rocks or tin cans is OK but shooting 10-20 shots for score then making a composite group can be very enlightening.
But of course there is the risk that the shooter will not win, happens to everyone. So rather than risk having their egos bruised they avoid what back in the day was often the primary source of entertainment.

Dan

 

[Robby]

Competition is a good thing. I think the vast majority of people have a natural instinct to want to win. Competition makes you a better shooter.
Some time ago, before the Bevel brothers article, there was a lot of hoopla about the positives of coning. In my heart of hearts, I had misgivings, but I finally caved to temptation when a major barrel manufacturer gave it a thumbs up. What a mistake!! I'll still by his barrels when I can, but beyond that, I won't be buying into any of his advice.
Robby

 

[Rifleman1776]

Simple, how many coned muzzle guns won or placed at Friendship?

No records are kept on that issue so no one would know.
This is an old, worn out, subject here, and on all the other ml fourms past and present.
I don't see how accuracy can be affected once the ball leaves the influence of the rifling.
But, my gut tells me to not mess with my bores and leave well enough alone.

 

[zimmerstutzen]

I recently saw advice on another forum to use a .490 ball and ticking at least .022 for a patch in a 50 cal. That has to be a palm bruiser.

Once the lead and a thick patch is swaged into the rifling, it is no longer any tighter than a thinner patch and the same ball. (Except perhaps a barrel with exceptionally deep narrow rifling, where the thick patch is required to fill the grooves.)

I agree that coning may dispense with the need for a short starter for a hunting rifle. If that is a big deal have at it.

But I can start the patch and ball in most of my guns with little more than thumb pressure without a coned muzzle.

I agree that we can only know the truth if someone shoots a few groups before and after coning so there is a comparison. I was aware that the Bevels ran a test.

We use a patch to seal the pressure and hot gasses behind the ball. Blow-by can create all kinds of problems with both PRB's and bullets. Why would intentionally permitting blow by at the last inch or two at the muzzle, not detract from accuracy?

 

[bob308]

i have made alot of barrels tried some coned. i can tell you this i have never seen a coned barrel win a match.

 

i can tell you this i have never seen a coned barrel win a match.

They don't have to. All they have to do is get the job done for that particular shooter.

How many "deer rifles" ever won a match? How many family sedans ever won a race?