Controversial question. Short rodding a patched ball.

[wiscoaster]

..... But what is the distance of safe zone to no man’s land ?

I think it's 0, isn't it?

 

[RobertIN]

I've shot without ramming by accident a couple of times, just the 6" or so from the short starter with no ill effects. This with a traditions .50@65 grains and a Kibler .54@ 70.

At this point I think the exploding barrels we have seen are due to a massive overcharge, somebody attempting to use smokeless powder for some reason, or just a freak accident.

It is my belief that a strong, good quality barrel will have zero problems with a reasonable powder charge/patch and ball combo. The path of least resistance is where the pressure will go, in my experience that path is out the end of the barrel. It's like a big fart, it'll always go out the hole and make a funny noise.

Obviously, make every attempt to shoot properly and pay attention to what you're doing as much as possible.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

I’m not asking to get folks riled up. But I have heard if you don’t get the projectile ( ball & patch ) for me , fully down the barrel you are setting it up for bad karma to your rifle. It’s nothing would do on purpose. But can happen. Watching a guy on YouTube talking about it. Where folks might push the round down with the ball starter . But forget to actually rod it any further. I know what we hear. But what is the truth in what we have seen . Some say nothing bad will happen. Some say ruined barrel. Where's the proof for either argument. Courious. Wardawg

Let me start by saying I have not read any other response to this question on this thread. It is crucial that you don't short start a ball/bullet and shoot. I was personally present when my Uncle did exactly that and opened up an octagon barrel about five inches back from the muzzle. It was a .58 Hawken style gun, and it was only the second or third shot that was ever fired from it (actual pictures attached of the cut off section). The charge was a patched soft lead ball over 60gr of ffg. I have also personally seen where barrels have bulged from such a thing (loose fitting ball) and rendered the gun unsafe to use. The moral of the story is: when loading your BP gun, stop talking/interacting with others and pay attention to what you are doing.

 

[Banjoman]

Not to stir anything up, but this is another reason I don’t use a short starter, or a very tight load. Using just my ramrod helps simplify loading steps. I also don’t mind swabbing the bore every few shots when plinking.

I’ve learned through trial and mostly error that if possible, to not set myself up for failure. But sometimes things still happen.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Not to stir anything up, but this is another reason I don’t use a short starter, or a very tight load. Using just my ramrod helps simplify loading steps. I also don’t mind swabbing the bore every few shots when plinking.

I’ve learned through trial and mostly error that if possible, to not set myself up for failure. But sometimes things still happen.

Just my .02 cents.

Well said. Personally, I usually get between six to eight shots before I have to swab it out. After the first swabbing I usually have to do it every three or four shots. I find rubbing alcohol works well. Usually dries out quickly in a warm barrel.

 

[hanshi]

I once discovered a barrel bulge in my .50 flintlock tack driver. Don't know how it got there so I can only guess. Rifle still shot as good as ever regardless of the bulge. The bulge didn't hurt anything but I still knew it was there and I didn't like it.

 

[SDSmlf]

Not to stir anything up, but this is another reason I don’t use a short starter, or a very tight load. Using just my ramrod helps simplify loading steps. I also don’t mind swabbing the bore every few shots when plinking.

I’ve learned through trial and mostly error that if possible, to not set myself up for failure. But sometimes things still happen.

Just my .02 cents.

Kind of silly to blame a short starter for someone not paying attention or getting distracted. Next logical step would be a loose enough projectile (think under bore size mini) so no ramrod would be required simplifying your loading steps even more. I’ve seen folks shoot ramrods out of their gun and also come up short with a ramrod when seat a load, one reason may mark their ramrods. Maybe consider cartridge guns if a short starter or ramrod isn’t simple enough?

Yep, when one least expects it, that short starter is going to jump out of your bag or off the bench and cause a barrel obstruction.

 

[11th corps]

This owner wasn't as lucky, although he sustained only minor injuries. Short started about 6 inches from the muzzle, patched ball in a smooth bore.
View attachment 345569

Wonder if the shooter used smokeless powder?

 

[Banjoman]

Kind of silly to blame a short starter for someone not paying attention or getting distracted. Next logical step would be a loose enough projectile (think under bore size mini) so no ramrod would be required simplifying your loading steps even more. I’ve seen folks shoot ramrods out of their gun and also come up short with a ramrod when seat a load, one reason may mark their ramrods. Maybe consider cartridge guns if a short starter or ramrod isn’t simple enough?

Yep, when one least expects it, that short starter is going to jump out of your bag or off the bench and cause a barrel obstruction.

Okay

 

[towgunner11h]

Ringed the barrel on my Investarms Hawken after I'd had it about 15 years. Short started it and didn't notice. Later that night was cleaning it and felt the loose spot right near the front sight. Just cut the barrel off and put a new dovetail in for the front sight. Now it's a carbine! Still shoots great.

 

[flintlock00]

In the early 80's I went shooting with a buddy who short started his CVA rifle and got distracted. He failed to seat the ball leaving it 4 inches below the muzzle. He fired it and noted it didn't sound quite right. Upon further inspection, we saw the octagonal barrel had been bulged round at that spot. Barrel was ruined. We were probably lucky it didn't do further damage, but had a rude awakening over this one. This was a warning not to be repeated. Lesson- no interruptions during loading!

 

[Marshhawk]

Buddy and I have a way of focusing attention. When we do water testing in local rivers it's easy to mess up during the tritration part of the process. We use the technique of pilots. We say "ten thousand feet," which is when any talk in the cockpit is limited solely to flying the plane. So when the loading begins, the chatting stops.

 

[flatcreek]

Have shot short started ball in a couple barrels with no issues, One was a A weight 50 cal. The shot just sounded funny, like maybe a squib load, no issues, but did not reach the target. Not advocating shooting short started ball and I like the post above "when the loading starts the chatting stops".

 

[Packrat]

Read the first article in today's thread

 

[flatcreek]

Read the first article in today's thread

First post of the thread or first post today?

 

[rrebuck]

People talk about the ring shaped bulge, but why is it shaped like that? The pressure should be high and equal for the whole length between that obstruction and the breech, so why would the bulge be do localized to form the ring?

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

Wonder if the shooter used smokeless powder?

Yeah, no way in Phoenix that was a short start.

 

[Flintlock Whiskey]

People talk about the ring shaped bulge, but why is it shaped like that? The pressure should be high and equal for the whole length between that obstruction and the breech, so why would the bulge be do localized to form the B

BP doesn't burn like progressive powders. Unlike progressive burning powder, it is packed into the breech area. It burns from the back towards the front simular to a solid rocket motor. It gets to the obstruction and overwhelms that part of the barrel.

 

[smoothshooter]

I’m not asking to get folks riled up. But I have heard if you don’t get the projectile ( ball & patch ) for me , fully down the barrel you are setting it up for bad karma to your rifle. It’s nothing would do on purpose. But can happen. Watching a guy on YouTube talking about it. Where folks might push the round down with the ball starter . But forget to actually rod it any further. I know what we hear. But what is the truth in what we have seen . Some say nothing bad will happen. Some say ruined barrel. Where's the proof for either argument. Courious. Wardawg

It would depend almost entirely on the size of the powder charge, and to a lesser extent, how tight the patch/ball combination was.
Barrel wall thickness also matters.

 

[Greenjoytj]

People talk about the ring shaped bulge, but why is it shaped like that? The pressure should be high and equal for the whole length between that obstruction and the breech, so why would the bulge be do localized to form the ring?

I believe the localized bulge or ring is cause at the meeting point of 2 shock waves, a point of resonance where the shock wave force is doubled.