I just got into flintlocks this yr. and didn't even know what PC meant..except for politically correct. I just wanted to start hunting with flintlocks. I never even shot one till I built my Virginia smooth bore this past winter. I knew I would like hunting with one..and I do. I didn't get into it to build I just couldn't get one built before spring gobbler season so had to do it myself. I do my own taxidermy, reload, tie flies..fletching..all that kind of stuff..built this computer and don't even remember how..forgot soon as it was done. Anyway..far as PC goes..I feel kinda like I step on toes if I don't do my home work reading all the books..etc. I don't get into all that history stuff..just like to know what I need and get it right to hunt with. But I don't never know but what one day I might just get the urge to put on a coonskin hat and get into all that too. So I don't pay much mind to all the PC policin...I'm just kinda like holding my hands up and walking back wards saying.."Hey y'all go right ahead..I'm just in here trying build some guns to hunt with."...and to hang around some good Ole folks who know a whole lot more about all this stuff than I do.
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Correct period for gun?
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Actually, nobody is all that "pure".
Even among those who strive for authenticity, there's disagreements. But, that's all part of sharing and learning. I think we'll just let people decide what they want to read and they're welcome to skip the other stuff. After all, people are not forced to read or agree with anything they find here.People are invited to be involved at whatever level they are comfortable with, or capable of. If someone can post photos, that's great. If others can not, I don't see why that should would drive them away. If they do stick around, they just might learn something.
Let's face it, since some of the "PC guys" have studied as much as they have, they may possess a wealth of knowledge that the average "weekend shooter" may not have. There's a lot to be learned from those that specialize in something and delve into it deeply.
"There are always going to be some who try to prove their superiority to everyone. Too frequently these self-styled proponents of historic accuracy seem like they can't enjoy themselves unless they ruin the fun and kill the enhusiasm of those who don't meet their standards'
I don't think it is s matter of anyones wanting someone else to meet their standards, very often these threads start with someone asking about the authenticity or level of historical correctness of a particular gun, the answers may not be what they want to hear but knowing what one has or doesn't have is better than blindly going on in an uninformed state, what one does with the info provided by those who have studied the originals is up to the individuals tastes and level of interest, I don't think anyone busted anyones chops here just provided some very honest, historical correct observations in response to a question directly aimed at said subject matter. I think the real offenders are the those who perpetuate the myths about many of the incorrest guns being "correct" and the manufactures and builders and suppliers stretching things to reach a larger market share.
I don't think it is s matter of anyones wanting someone else to meet their standards, very often these threads start with someone asking about the authenticity or level of historical correctness of a particular gun, the answers may not be what they want to hear but knowing what one has or doesn't have is better than blindly going on in an uninformed state, what one does with the info provided by those who have studied the originals is up to the individuals tastes and level of interest, I don't think anyone busted anyones chops here just provided some very honest, historical correct observations in response to a question directly aimed at said subject matter. I think the real offenders are the those who perpetuate the myths about many of the incorrest guns being "correct" and the manufactures and builders and suppliers stretching things to reach a larger market share.
I agree. You see this quite often.
Someone will ask if their "new rifle" is good for a certain period and when they are told it isn't, they get ****** off. People don't want to hear that they might have made a mistake.
So, do you try to help someone by telling them that their new, $60.00 Arrow Mocs aren't right for the F&I period and risk being labeled a "PC Nazi" (usually by someone not involved in the discussion) or do you say nothing, knowing that they are making a mistake? It's a tough call. You never know if the person really wants to know or if they are just looking for someone to agree with them.
Gentlemen, When a new ML shooter poses a question such as: "Where does my factory made rifle fit in historically?" I think he is entitled to an honest reply, which is: "It doesn't fit in at all."
You can be patronizing and point him toward this era or that, but you aren't doing him any favor if you don't tell him straight out that his rifle may be well made, reliable, accurate, a good way to start muzzleloading without spending a great deal of money, etc., etc., but it just isn't a faithful rendition of any historic weapon.
Why do some folks cry "snobbery" or "eliteism" every time this subject comes up? Most of us started with a rifle which was a good deal short of authentic--I'm not too proud to admit that I didn't start with a TC--I started by spending a great deal of effort building a TC replica from scratch. TC's were the only "Hawkens" rifles I could get my hands on, and I didn't know any better, so I used a Numrich barrel with a piece of keystock for an underrib, a Siler lock, a piece of walnut from the lumberyard, and built the ugliest and most unauthentic rifle you can imagine. It shot and it got me started, but as soon as I learned better I salvaged the lock and a few other parts and destroyed the evidence of my youthful ignorance.
If you like TC's and CVA's and Lyman's nobody is trying to run you off. However, those of us who love traditional American firearms don't have much interest in or use for mass produced imitations, and some of us do resent the misappropriation of terms like "Hawken", "trade rifle" and such by manufacturers who are just out to make a quick buck.
Claude has subdivided this forum into 1/4 acre tracts, but maybe he needs to differentiate between traditional longrifles and mass produced guns the same as he has with in-lines?
"No one will ever go broke underestimating the taste of the American public." P.T. Barnum
You can be patronizing and point him toward this era or that, but you aren't doing him any favor if you don't tell him straight out that his rifle may be well made, reliable, accurate, a good way to start muzzleloading without spending a great deal of money, etc., etc., but it just isn't a faithful rendition of any historic weapon.
Why do some folks cry "snobbery" or "eliteism" every time this subject comes up? Most of us started with a rifle which was a good deal short of authentic--I'm not too proud to admit that I didn't start with a TC--I started by spending a great deal of effort building a TC replica from scratch. TC's were the only "Hawkens" rifles I could get my hands on, and I didn't know any better, so I used a Numrich barrel with a piece of keystock for an underrib, a Siler lock, a piece of walnut from the lumberyard, and built the ugliest and most unauthentic rifle you can imagine. It shot and it got me started, but as soon as I learned better I salvaged the lock and a few other parts and destroyed the evidence of my youthful ignorance.
If you like TC's and CVA's and Lyman's nobody is trying to run you off. However, those of us who love traditional American firearms don't have much interest in or use for mass produced imitations, and some of us do resent the misappropriation of terms like "Hawken", "trade rifle" and such by manufacturers who are just out to make a quick buck.
Claude has subdivided this forum into 1/4 acre tracts, but maybe he needs to differentiate between traditional longrifles and mass produced guns the same as he has with in-lines?
"No one will ever go broke underestimating the taste of the American public." P.T. Barnum
We've had that discussion but can't agree on the definitions, so we'll just have to do the best we can.
Russ T Frizzen
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I agree that no one was being elitist here. When someone asks where his gun fits historically he deserves a straight answer. I certainly would want one.
The various "trade" rifles were as distinct in their style as a true Hawken is. And the mass produced "trade rifles" do not resemble them at all. When one shows up at a serious event with an incorrect piece, they are going to be told that the rifle is unacceptable. Better to find out that the gun is not a true replica before that happens.
A lot of the trouble comes from manufacturers slapping a catchy sounding name on their product as a marketing aid. Thompson Center Hawken Rifle sounds a lot better than Thompson Center Generic Heavy Half Stock Interpretation Rifle. But that is what it is. And if any of the Hawkens were still around, T/C would have needed to come up with a new name. They build a fine and reliable product, but it isn't a Hawken. And they aren't alone in this--there have been several companies selling a so-called Hawken, but what they were selling looked like a copy of the T/C rifle, only built in Spain or Italy.
Anyway, it certainly wasn't my intention to hurt anyone's feelings or discourage anyone from pursuing the sport of muzzleloading. I do not believe it is elitist to want the most historically accurate rifle that one can get. Or to point the way for others in this regard.
This forum is of immense value to newcomer and old hand alike and sometimes our discussions do get intense. I don't think this snobbery--rather I believe it reflects the deep passion most of us feel for this avocation. And I for one hope that doen't ever change.
The various "trade" rifles were as distinct in their style as a true Hawken is. And the mass produced "trade rifles" do not resemble them at all. When one shows up at a serious event with an incorrect piece, they are going to be told that the rifle is unacceptable. Better to find out that the gun is not a true replica before that happens.
A lot of the trouble comes from manufacturers slapping a catchy sounding name on their product as a marketing aid. Thompson Center Hawken Rifle sounds a lot better than Thompson Center Generic Heavy Half Stock Interpretation Rifle. But that is what it is. And if any of the Hawkens were still around, T/C would have needed to come up with a new name. They build a fine and reliable product, but it isn't a Hawken. And they aren't alone in this--there have been several companies selling a so-called Hawken, but what they were selling looked like a copy of the T/C rifle, only built in Spain or Italy.
Anyway, it certainly wasn't my intention to hurt anyone's feelings or discourage anyone from pursuing the sport of muzzleloading. I do not believe it is elitist to want the most historically accurate rifle that one can get. Or to point the way for others in this regard.
This forum is of immense value to newcomer and old hand alike and sometimes our discussions do get intense. I don't think this snobbery--rather I believe it reflects the deep passion most of us feel for this avocation. And I for one hope that doen't ever change.
Guest
to get back to the original question, your rifle would fit "best" into the late fur trade/plains/rockies stuff--it would be accepted in most such rondys. As others have said, few of the factory "repros" are accurate copies of any period guns...having said that I have seen so-called "california rifles" from the late percussion period which looked alot like the TC Hawkin. Hansen in his Plains Rifles book illustrates an original mountain man rifle which looks alot like the el cheapo two-piece stocked "kentucky rifles" sold a few years back. Not everyone carried a true Hawkin. In fact few did. There were alot of variations on the theme. Everyone starts somewhere and budgets vary considerably--and it can cost a bunch of $$$ to get everything PC....but the late period "buckskinners" are where you probably best fit right now... :m2c:
One, all of the experts here are running off a less than one in a thousand sample of what was made. They have no idea what was actually made. They only know what survived. What are the differences between some of the guns you are so adamantly against? The cheekpiece is wrong. The lockplate is shaped a little different. The rifle is too light. They used brass where they should not have. They use modern finishing methods and products. No, they did not pay someone to pour the nose pieces in place!
I would put forward that if not for CVA and TC, few of the so called experts would have ever been introduced to muzzleloading at all. There would be few seasons, rendezvous, clubs, or anything else. CVA, TC, and the catalog are what kept it alive. If those guns had been 12 pound accurate Hawken repro's priced at what that would have cost, there would be no muzzleloading sport to participate in. Now, after starting with these guns, after years of research, you find reasons not to like them anymore. You spend all your time waiting to be able to tell someone that their gun is a piece of crud. You do all you can to keep them from enjoying themselves and having the time you had to learn. You rationalize this by saying you are doing them a favor. You act like those joyous years hunting with those guns was a desert you finally crossed and found water at last. It isn't so, and you know it. I like my CVA's and I will not apologize for it. Button police are the folks walking around looking to pee in someone else's pool. That qualifies a lot of you. When asked a specific question, answering is cool. When a newcomer asks where he fits in, you encourage him. You don't tell he does fit in at all. When you do, you are a button nazi!
I would put forward that if not for CVA and TC, few of the so called experts would have ever been introduced to muzzleloading at all. There would be few seasons, rendezvous, clubs, or anything else. CVA, TC, and the catalog are what kept it alive. If those guns had been 12 pound accurate Hawken repro's priced at what that would have cost, there would be no muzzleloading sport to participate in. Now, after starting with these guns, after years of research, you find reasons not to like them anymore. You spend all your time waiting to be able to tell someone that their gun is a piece of crud. You do all you can to keep them from enjoying themselves and having the time you had to learn. You rationalize this by saying you are doing them a favor. You act like those joyous years hunting with those guns was a desert you finally crossed and found water at last. It isn't so, and you know it. I like my CVA's and I will not apologize for it. Button police are the folks walking around looking to pee in someone else's pool. That qualifies a lot of you. When asked a specific question, answering is cool. When a newcomer asks where he fits in, you encourage him. You don't tell he does fit in at all. When you do, you are a button nazi!
I too have a production "Hawkens" style Flintlock! I know it is not P.C. Over the past ten years or so,I've been rebuilding and repairing thease replicas,If I live long enough,I'll build a weapon that comes close to being[url] P.C.In[/url] the meantime I'll continue to read and gather info. about what is P.C.I don't believe the answers You recieved from others here was meant to discourage Your pursuit of the B.P. sports,but,to give You accurrate info.about Your weapon. Enjoy what You have,and strive to become more P.C. as time and money allow. Good Luck in Your Quest!
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I'm generally confused, being old and all, but this one is a repetitive sort of confusion. Happens every day, apparently.
Let's say Joe knows just a bit of muzzleloading, is excited about it, is just getting into it. He buys a really nice, functional, accurate mass production gun with no close resemblance to anything ever made when black powder guns were the latest modern invention.
Joe then asks Bill, a guy who has dedicated a lot of years and resources into developing a historically authentic outfit, whether or not his gun is authentic or Period Correct. The correct answer is no and Bill says, "It really isn't authentic nor representative of guns from any particular period."
Joe is insulted and feels Bill is being a snob. Bill didn't say, "You're a rank beginner, you know nothing, I am superior, you are not welcome around here." But somehow that's what Joe thinks Bill said, and then Dave and Ken say, "Yeah, you guys are nazis!"
Huh? Why does Joe need to feel that as a beginner, just getting into the sport, he has automatically bought into the whole re-enactment thing? I find that if Joe decides to stick with his superbly accurate, highly reliable, fun mass produced rifle for years, he then gets even more adamant about "purists" being mean-spirited people trying to rain on someone's parade. Why is that? Nobody is stopping him from participating in a shoot, or preventing him from hunting and enjoying himself. Maybe folks don't understand that re-enactment is a different level, a whole different animal entirely.
Let's switch to cars. One guy has an old Chevette, the other a vintage T-bird all tricked out. Does one guy have more or less of a right to the road? Not. But at the vintage car show, would it be right for the guy with the old Chevette to get all indignant if the folks running the show don't want him to park in the front row? Would you expect to have a spot on the front row of a classic car show with your current ride? Looks like the same sort of "entitlement" attitude to me.
I have the authentic guns and am waiting till I get the rest of my outfit together before participating in re-enactments. I would not think of going and putting someone in the awkward position of telling me, "We're trying to portray history accurately to the public- and your clothing is just not helpful for what we are trying to portray."
Let's say Joe knows just a bit of muzzleloading, is excited about it, is just getting into it. He buys a really nice, functional, accurate mass production gun with no close resemblance to anything ever made when black powder guns were the latest modern invention.
Joe then asks Bill, a guy who has dedicated a lot of years and resources into developing a historically authentic outfit, whether or not his gun is authentic or Period Correct. The correct answer is no and Bill says, "It really isn't authentic nor representative of guns from any particular period."
Joe is insulted and feels Bill is being a snob. Bill didn't say, "You're a rank beginner, you know nothing, I am superior, you are not welcome around here." But somehow that's what Joe thinks Bill said, and then Dave and Ken say, "Yeah, you guys are nazis!"
Huh? Why does Joe need to feel that as a beginner, just getting into the sport, he has automatically bought into the whole re-enactment thing? I find that if Joe decides to stick with his superbly accurate, highly reliable, fun mass produced rifle for years, he then gets even more adamant about "purists" being mean-spirited people trying to rain on someone's parade. Why is that? Nobody is stopping him from participating in a shoot, or preventing him from hunting and enjoying himself. Maybe folks don't understand that re-enactment is a different level, a whole different animal entirely.
Let's switch to cars. One guy has an old Chevette, the other a vintage T-bird all tricked out. Does one guy have more or less of a right to the road? Not. But at the vintage car show, would it be right for the guy with the old Chevette to get all indignant if the folks running the show don't want him to park in the front row? Would you expect to have a spot on the front row of a classic car show with your current ride? Looks like the same sort of "entitlement" attitude to me.
I have the authentic guns and am waiting till I get the rest of my outfit together before participating in re-enactments. I would not think of going and putting someone in the awkward position of telling me, "We're trying to portray history accurately to the public- and your clothing is just not helpful for what we are trying to portray."
I dunno..seems to me this whole thing about PC could go on forever..both sides have valid points, at least in my opinion. Kinda funny though...about having the correct rifle...the correct clothes...and yet...every rondy that I read about in modern times...they are all incorrect. I mean...how can one tout something as being correct when what is being done at them is only being half done. I don't think it would fly very well if every woman seen at one of these rondy's would stand a good chance of being dragged off into the bushes. Or having a three or four day mass drunk going on. Someone pointed out that a person new to all this ought to be encouraged to over time become as authentic as possible. Why?! Seems to me...this whole thing becomes nothing more than a fashion show then. If someone wants to go whole hog...great, no problem...but if someone doesn't want to do that and is happy going to a rondy that doesn't have all the hoopla and PC cops...that is fine also..at least it should be.
Not only is your button wrong, but you're fly's undone.
So, if I show up at a reenactment with my Red Ryder BB gun I'm OK because that is the gun that got me started in shooting?
A question was asked, an honest answer was given. A CVA or T/C will be accepted at many events, not accepted at many others. Are we so politically correct anymore that we can't face the truth? For the most part, the gun contributes very little to most reenactments, anyhow. No doubt about it, many of the event enforcers are mistaken on some things. Your option is to prove yourself or pass on their event. It's not like you won't get to heaven if you miss that one, anyway.
Because YOU don't know what was available does not mean the rest of the world is likewise uninformed. We have archeology to show what existed at a given time - parts in the dumps of forts, gunsmith's renderings in the journals, descriptions in ledgerbooks and militia/arsenal records, recovered arms from sunken ships, manifests to show what calibers were popular enough to be stocked pre-cast (and not just as lead ingots), moulds, and the sampling of the existing arms.
My favorite "events" are the informal ones where no one is being judged, just joshin and shooting for our own entertainment. Poke fun at a guy's button (without a smile and a gleam in yer eye) and you're just as like to have to try breathing around it in it's new home.
So, if I show up at a reenactment with my Red Ryder BB gun I'm OK because that is the gun that got me started in shooting?
A question was asked, an honest answer was given. A CVA or T/C will be accepted at many events, not accepted at many others. Are we so politically correct anymore that we can't face the truth? For the most part, the gun contributes very little to most reenactments, anyhow. No doubt about it, many of the event enforcers are mistaken on some things. Your option is to prove yourself or pass on their event. It's not like you won't get to heaven if you miss that one, anyway.
Because YOU don't know what was available does not mean the rest of the world is likewise uninformed. We have archeology to show what existed at a given time - parts in the dumps of forts, gunsmith's renderings in the journals, descriptions in ledgerbooks and militia/arsenal records, recovered arms from sunken ships, manifests to show what calibers were popular enough to be stocked pre-cast (and not just as lead ingots), moulds, and the sampling of the existing arms.
My favorite "events" are the informal ones where no one is being judged, just joshin and shooting for our own entertainment. Poke fun at a guy's button (without a smile and a gleam in yer eye) and you're just as like to have to try breathing around it in it's new home.
My reply is that no one knows what was built and not built. The odds that the TC hawken is an almost exact replica of a gun that was made are a lot better than those that it is not, especially considering the fact that numerous guns exist that are close in a lot of details. Here, this will prove my point.
The airgun carried by the L&C party. This is maybe the hardest researched gun in history. Now, What was it? Who made it? What caliber was it? Was it single or multishot? Was it butt flask or ball flask? Was it donated or purchased? Who provided it? What happened to it afterward? Whose design was it? Did it have an exposed time lock or a hammer lock? Heck, was the barrel round or octagon? Did it have a fore stock? Was it a muzzleloader or a breech tap loader?
I can show you at least four different well researched and documented opinions on this one gun, by the top experts. The same applies to the regular guns also. If you think a smith did not use that short piece of barrel for something, you never built anything out of metal. If you think they did not have customers that had requirements like the gun being as light as possible, you have never been in business. If you think they did not make gussied up versions of their standard fare for their clients willing to pay, you are wrong. If brass was available and steel was in short supply, the furniture would be brass to save the steel for the jobs it was required for. Most of what is accepted as PC as far as the guns go is speculation based on surviving examples. A lot of those surviving examples survived because they were protected, not used. Some of them do not represent the working guns of the period anymore than a garaged Mercedes represents a typical passenger car.
The airgun carried by the L&C party. This is maybe the hardest researched gun in history. Now, What was it? Who made it? What caliber was it? Was it single or multishot? Was it butt flask or ball flask? Was it donated or purchased? Who provided it? What happened to it afterward? Whose design was it? Did it have an exposed time lock or a hammer lock? Heck, was the barrel round or octagon? Did it have a fore stock? Was it a muzzleloader or a breech tap loader?
I can show you at least four different well researched and documented opinions on this one gun, by the top experts. The same applies to the regular guns also. If you think a smith did not use that short piece of barrel for something, you never built anything out of metal. If you think they did not have customers that had requirements like the gun being as light as possible, you have never been in business. If you think they did not make gussied up versions of their standard fare for their clients willing to pay, you are wrong. If brass was available and steel was in short supply, the furniture would be brass to save the steel for the jobs it was required for. Most of what is accepted as PC as far as the guns go is speculation based on surviving examples. A lot of those surviving examples survived because they were protected, not used. Some of them do not represent the working guns of the period anymore than a garaged Mercedes represents a typical passenger car.
Guest
A rondy is basically just a big social event and few rules apply and few PC nazis are about...these are events where you can get good advice and bad examples as next door neighbors. Alot of knowledge at most rondys, alot of different types--and more diverse as the years pass. The buckskinners are diluted with F&I War and AWI types and others. Outside most people look pretty good, but the inside of a tent may contain a bunch of modern stuff. But when a person goes to a period correct reenactment of an actual event (such as a battle or siege)or takes part in a living history event at an historic site, a different standard applies.Everyone is supposed to be as PC as possible and that means a deeper level of historical research is required. This takes time and $$$. No beginner will have it all together and most need mentors. Alot of us got into the hobby from a love of guns and knew little about the details of life in the periods when these guns were the norm...Some of us also loved history and this hobby lets us combine both loves. The newcomer must read and must ask questions and it behoves us who have already done so to help rather than criticise. It behooves the beginner to listen and not take offense--not take advice as criticism. Starting out can be overwhelming, especially if you have limited means. We had a walk-in to our primitive camp last weekend. Husband, wife, kid. They had little income. He carried a used TC Hawkin that he had lovingly restored and inlaid with brass decorations. He wore blue jeans, a Navajo sash, tshirt with beads and old hunting boots. No one laughed, we complimented him on his inlay skills, we discussed with the whole family what we did and showed them our "stuff" (all of us are F&I War period nuts). Turns out this guy is a trapper and expert in tanning skins and hides, and he had several nice ones to show us. While we watched, he dressed a fresh beaver hide over a cedar plank with a draw knife. He was hoping to sell enough skins to get enough $$$ to get into the hobby (buckskinning). We encouraged him, gave him some sources of info, etc...and one of the guys gave his son a patch knife he had made and a little imported 'hawk. I hope they went away with some knowledge. :m2c:
Guest
Well said, and for those offended by the truth,.... jest imagine one of these modern mass-produced "Hawkens" :haha: travel'm back in time and placed on Sam's work bench, is it hard to imagine he would be more then a little bewildered to find out it wears his "moniker"???? (or, would he also be called a "snob" when stateing such a rifle doesn't resemble his craftmanship, even tho it might be an excellant shooter??) :hmm:
YMHS
rollingb
Guest
There is a very,very,very great diference between a rondy and a reenactment. Never get the two activities confused.
While I attend both types of functions not all persons do, either through inability to meet the historic standards or lack of desire to meet them.
Here in my area we have a large number of historic sites of the frontier era, and a large number of people still trapped in their fur trade trappings (an era that had no historic impact in our area).
A reenactment has specific preagreed historic standards, set for a very specific time and place, and the participants agree to meet the standards for that time period. Not to meet them to the best of their ability, or meet them if it is convinient, but to meet them....period.
You don't use things that "might have been used"..."could have existed"..."would have been used if they had existed"..."are only 20 years out of time frame"...."look sort of old fasioned"..."I heard it was OK!" ...or the ever famous.."AIN'T NOBODY GOING TO TELL ME HOW I CAN CAMP!"
Many reenactments even take place in settings where alcahol is not premitted! A rondy would be canceled outright in that situation!
Rondys are for recreation. Reenactments, while some of us consider them good fun, are usually for educational purposes.
Two weeks ago I was at a site where Simon Kenton ran a gauntlet, last week I was at Boonesboro, we never step out of the 1770s at those places.
This week I will be at a good sized rondy complete with tee-pees, Sibly tents, pyrimid shelters and a very displaced mountain man or two. This is a pre 1840 event, which means there are really no standards except what you impose on yourself.
Will I sit and criticize everone that comes to my fire? Will I go out and seek arguments over PC conditions? Will I cringe over the "factory caplocks" on the fireing line?
No on all counts. I knew the rules when I signed on! I'll just look bettter than they do, shoot better than they do, eat better than they do and be about twice as comfortable as they are.
I'll hold a couple of semanars, teach a workshop of two and possibly help a couple of them slip in the back door of a fort after they switch moccs and trim the fringe!
PC is for certain people that have a certain goal for themselves. If you do not have a goal do not ask me if your gear or gun is PC. I will tell you. If you really did not care, or it did not matter, don't get uspset over what you hear.
:front:
While I attend both types of functions not all persons do, either through inability to meet the historic standards or lack of desire to meet them.
Here in my area we have a large number of historic sites of the frontier era, and a large number of people still trapped in their fur trade trappings (an era that had no historic impact in our area).
A reenactment has specific preagreed historic standards, set for a very specific time and place, and the participants agree to meet the standards for that time period. Not to meet them to the best of their ability, or meet them if it is convinient, but to meet them....period.
You don't use things that "might have been used"..."could have existed"..."would have been used if they had existed"..."are only 20 years out of time frame"...."look sort of old fasioned"..."I heard it was OK!" ...or the ever famous.."AIN'T NOBODY GOING TO TELL ME HOW I CAN CAMP!"
Many reenactments even take place in settings where alcahol is not premitted! A rondy would be canceled outright in that situation!
Rondys are for recreation. Reenactments, while some of us consider them good fun, are usually for educational purposes.
Two weeks ago I was at a site where Simon Kenton ran a gauntlet, last week I was at Boonesboro, we never step out of the 1770s at those places.
This week I will be at a good sized rondy complete with tee-pees, Sibly tents, pyrimid shelters and a very displaced mountain man or two. This is a pre 1840 event, which means there are really no standards except what you impose on yourself.
Will I sit and criticize everone that comes to my fire? Will I go out and seek arguments over PC conditions? Will I cringe over the "factory caplocks" on the fireing line?
No on all counts. I knew the rules when I signed on! I'll just look bettter than they do, shoot better than they do, eat better than they do and be about twice as comfortable as they are.
I'll hold a couple of semanars, teach a workshop of two and possibly help a couple of them slip in the back door of a fort after they switch moccs and trim the fringe!
PC is for certain people that have a certain goal for themselves. If you do not have a goal do not ask me if your gear or gun is PC. I will tell you. If you really did not care, or it did not matter, don't get uspset over what you hear.
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Old Charlie
45 Cal.
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I also think a lot of this PC stuff is to sell high dollar guns and gear.
Old Charlie
Old Charlie
Guest
You can study a little, spend a little and do it right. Or you can run out and buy every "cool" thing you can find, spend a fortune, and be very wrong.
Every year one of my friends has attempted to sell his buckskins for enough to recover his investment. They are still for sale after ten years.
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