Correct period for gun?

[Runner]

Runner is not as deep in as he wishes. He is as deep as his pockets allow these days. The other addiction, pellet rifles, got the big money this time instead of upgrading one of my BP guns. I really like the CVA guns I have, so the pressure to upgrade is not high. I am seriously considering a smoothbore flinter of medium length for hunting as a primary all the time gun. I may pick a germanic stock, a straight barrel, brass fixtures, and cut the stock down to half just to see some of these guys turn purple and pass out when I walk by with it. For those in the St. Louis area, there is a gunsmith in Arnold that has a consignment of guns in that are not too bad, but a little dickering will be needed. He has one of the military guns and a pretty nice Hawken type that are both PC. He has 400$ on the military gun and 600 on the Hawken type. One of the PC experts would have to go over the one to make sure all is well, but the workmanship looked good. Barrel is white and the stock is still blonde. Beyond that it looks like one of the expensive parts kits put together with care. If the half stock doesn't sell before season, it may be my next gun. I need to get Rich to look it over for me.

I would love having a full period camp. Right now, getting the hat figured out, an outer hunters shirt, finishing my new horn handled patch knife, restocking the Hawken, and getting leggins made will have to be enough for a while.

 

[oomcurt]

I'm basically in the same catagory as Runner...kind of "have gun will travel" kind of thing. I really don't give two hoots in the wind as to what some PC character thinks..as long as what I wear and shoots fits in with the bunch I signed on with in my area. As for the idea that just because it may have been done this way but we don't have proof that it was...hogwash. Seems to me, and again..I am only interested in the fur trade area...those folks back then had to have had dang inventive minds to survive. That...and why would they spend the time and effort to record something that they thought was so mundane it would border on rediculous to describe it in detail? Maybe there ought to be a forum where the purpose is to only use, discuss, and collect only that which the smithsonian has seen fit to declare existed...

 

Yeah!!.. I know what you mean, after all what would'a bunch of guys thet have done years of independent research on weapons, clothing, lifestyles, and etc. know 'bout history anyway??

Heck!!.. Everbuddy knows thet "flint'n steel" translates to "ZIPPO", and blue-jeans were used for "leggins", and "buffler-runnin" was done with Ford Broncos.

I hate it when them "PC guys" keep try'n to answer someone's question, and then politely correct us when we jump in here and tell'em how things really were "back then" (whenever "that" was). You'd think they'ed give up and agree with us, when we tell'em Davey Crockett was really Fess Parker, and the old "TV series" proved it!!

History books and historical sources are for idiots anyway, and museums are for the mentaly senile and have nuthin but "old stuff" to look at,.... I'd much rather go to Cabelas wher all the "new stuff" is at, and those summer part-time clerks know enough about history to answer all the questions I'll ever have when it comes to muzzleloaders!!

Anybuddy that says my $79.00 "Danny Boone Rifle" ain't as good as one of them Lancaster "thingies", and suggests I could have bought sumpthin better,.... otta know I ain't got any money left after buy'n my bass-boat, Kodiak 4-wheeler, stereo-system, authentic Gortex Buckskins from Cabelas, and fancy chrome-rims and big tires for my pickup.

Them "PC guys" really have some nerve, to keep yappin on and on and on and on, even tho we ain't got any interest in history and we don't much care about the question the original poster asked at the begining of this thread,.... but it does provide us with the perfect opportunity to tell'm how rude they are!! ::

rollingb

 

[mikee51848]

Well said rollingb :thumbsup:. I have a Peccatonica long rifle and a TC Hawken. Both have their use and purpose. I built the TC many years ago and have hunted with it. But when I swing the long gun with it's 42 inch swamped barrel on a target, man.. it's just feels better. That said, there is much about being PC that is still a matter of conjecture and interpretation, particularly the further back in time you go. Now from what I've read, for instance, a good PC Rev War outfit would be to take our new Townsend clothes, soak them with blood, and toss 'em into a den of hungry wolves, being sure to save a few of the rags for your feet, instead of shoes.
:m2c:

 

[roundball]

And just to clarify my earlier comments, I take no issue with different degrees of PC knowledge held by various individuals, and salute that knowledge and experience.

My interest in attempting to contribute to this discussion is only focused on the people side of the equation, not the technology side...I've thought of an anology that is clear and doesn't involve MLs so it won't be misunderstood:

EXAMPLE
A guy or gal decides it's time to buy a new car, decides it'll be some sort of sports car, looks at Cameros, Firebirds, Corvettes, etc...falls in love with a Corvette and buys it.

Drives it home proudly, rolls through his neighborhood with the top down, wind in his hair, dual exhausts rumbling, pulls into his driveway, and before he can get out of the car and walk into his house, neighbors are decending upon him from all around making comments like:

Ya know, that's not really a race car;
Ya know, you can't use that at Indy;
Ya know, that's not as good as the real NASCAR pace car;
etc,
etc,

He never made a comment that it was a race car;
He never made a comment about using it at Indy;
He never made a comment that it was as good as a NSACAR pace car;

Nothing....he simply bought a new car for himself!!!!!

All those unsolicited comments were out of line...and those who decended on him demonstrated knee-jerk assumptions and conclusions...maybe it was some sort deep rooted need to demonstrate how much they knew about real race cars, etc.

NOTE: It doesn't mean that everything they said wasn't true...this is not an issue about knowledge at all.

But it does mean that they were totally off the mark to come on like storm troopers no matter how correct their comments might have been...because they were off target...no basis what-so-ever to begin throwing out all those unsolicited negative comments.

Some neighbors at first even started their comments on a positive footing by saying: Well, that's a great looking[url] car.......but......in[/url] the end still threw in the qualifing statements like: as long as you don't think it's as good as...or as long as you know you can't use it at...as long as all you do is drive to the grocery store, etc, etc

The guy just wanted to drive and enjoy his new Corvette, take his Wife and Son for a drive, etc.

He couldn't care less about Indy, doesn't know if NASCAR even uses pace cars, doesn't even happen to be a race car fan...and definitely wasn't interested in getting all sorts of negative sounding comments thrust upon him suggesting his choice is uninformed, limited, sub-standard, etc.

So if the theme of that anology is clear, that's all I was trying to get across...I salute all those who have 100 years of Purist/PC muzzleloader knowledge...they know far more than I do and far more than I ever will...I was just trying to give some feedback that at times it seems to get force fed when it's not even wanted, needed, or being asked for.

:m2c: eace:

 

[tg]

Very often when the PC thing comes up it is part of an answer to a question put forth just like this post started with, or a question asking comments in general about a particular type of gun, and with ML guns authenticity is one of the factors, just as if one states that he just got a so and so with a 1/32 twist barrel the projectile issue will come up even if not specificaly asked, if you look back at the start of this thread the original poster got good honest advise from those who have a knowledge about history.... the uglyness really started from the other side of the fence...

 

[Claude Mathis]

And just to clarify my earlier comments, I take no issue with different degrees of PC knowledge held by various individuals, and salute that knowledge and experience.

My interest in attempting to contribute to this discussion is only focused on the people side of the equation, not the technology side...I've thought of an anology that is clear and doesn't involve MLs so it won't be misunderstood:

EXAMPLE
A guy or gal decides it's time to buy a new car, decides it'll be some sort of sports car, looks at Cameros, Firebirds, Corvettes, etc...falls in love with a Corvette and buys it.

Drives it home proudly, rolls through his neighborhood with the top down, wind in his hair, dual exhausts rumbling, pulls into his driveway, and before he can get out of the car and walk into his house, neighbors are decending upon him from all around making comments like:

Ya know, that's not really a race car;
Ya know, you can't use that at Indy;
Ya know, that's not as good as the real NASCAR pace car;
etc,
etc,

He never made a comment that it was a race car;
He never made a comment about using it at Indy;
He never made a comment that it was as good as a NSACAR pace car;

Nothing....he simply bought a new car for himself!!!!!

All those unsolicited comments were out of line...and those who decended on him demonstrated knee-jerk assumptions and conclusions...maybe it was some sort deep rooted need to demonstrate how much they knew about real race cars, etc.

NOTE: It doesn't mean that everything they said wasn't true...this is not an issue about knowledge at all.

But it does mean that they were totally off the mark to come on like storm troopers no matter how correct their comments might have been...because they were off target...no basis what-so-ever to begin throwing out all those unsolicited negative comments.

Some neighbors at first even started their comments on a positive footing by saying: Well, that's a great looking[url] car.......but......in[/url] the end still threw in the qualifing statements like: as long as you don't think it's as good as...or as long as you know you can't use it at...as long as all you do is drive to the grocery store, etc, etc

The guy just wanted to drive and enjoy his new Corvette, take his Wife and Son for a drive, etc.

He couldn't care less about Indy, doesn't know if NASCAR even uses pace cars, doesn't even happen to be a race car fan...and definitely wasn't interested in getting all sorts of negative sounding comments thrust upon him suggesting his choice is uninformed, limited, sub-standard, etc.

So if the theme of that anology is clear, that's all I was trying to get across...I salute all those who have 100 years of Purist/PC muzzleloader knowledge...they know far more than I do and far more than I ever will...I was just trying to give some feedback that at times it seems to get force fed when it's not even wanted, needed, or being asked for.

:m2c: eace:

You certainly put a lot of effort into your analogy, but it has nothing to do with this thread.

The original question was... "Correct period for gun?" It was a question, seeking comments. It was not someone minding his own business who was molested by PC guys offering unsolicited advice.

That leaves the filed open to any comments someone may wish to make about the gun and, as the poster asked, it's correctness.

He asked about it's correctness in a given time period. You, apparently, don't even like people to give advise when it's asked for.

Now, had the original poster said. "Hey I bought a gun.", with no question in his statement, that would be more like your analogy of someone not seeking advise.

It's anti-PC comments like yours that side-track these threads and keep the poster form ever getting an answer. You do a disservice to the original poster and offer nothing that will help him.

My question to you is, since you have no interest in answering his original question, what is your purpose in posting in this thread if not simply to condemn those that do have something to offer?

 

[Claude Mathis]

...if you look back at the start of this thread the original poster got good honest advise from those who have a knowledge about history.... the uglyness really started from the other side of the fence...

As is often the case, it's getting harder to offer any historical advice on this site without the Anti-PC crowd side-tracking the issue.

It's a problem that needs to and will be addressed.

 

[Tahquamenon]

[/quote]

As is often the case, it's getting harder to offer any historical advice on this site without the Anti-PC crowd side-tracking the issue.

It's a problem that needs to and will be addressed. [/quote]

For the record, I am not in the anti-pc crowd.

If fact, I've great admiration for folks in period persona, equipment and attire. Shows a huge amount of dedication to craft.

I just wish I had more time to allot to learning.

eace:

 

[booshway]

OK, My take on this PC stuff. I go to rendezvous, and I've been "advised" on things that were not quite "period correct." One trader told me he was made to put away some knives he had for sale because they had a thin white band in the handle, between the grip and the pommel. They said there is no evidence there were any knives with that kind of decoration in the past. OK, I agree that you can't use six-shooters if you portray a voyageur, or stuff like that. I would even say no to using a percussion if I portrayed a rev war soldier, etc. But let's put things in perspective, OK? How can you bar someone from using a flintlock that's not PC, like a Lyman Trade Gun, and then sit around the rendezvous with these wooden chairs, fire grates, all kinds of cast iron, a wooden box cooler lined with styrofoam, a washbasin on a tri-pod, etc. They allow a dish drainer if it's wood. OK, they had wood back then. They had wooden boxes, they had cast iron kettles. But did a real mountain man have all that sh-- at a rendezvous? No. The spirit of the law is that it LOOKS in keeping with historical times. If you want to take your TC Hawken to a rendezvous, go ahead. Not very many shooters there will be more period correct than you. As long as you aren't bringing a Winchester lever action to the line, unless it's a cowboy shoot, you're OK. Unless we are all going to go back to eating raw buffalo liver and cooking with meat on a spit made of sticks, we should be a little bit accommodating. Also, we'd have to sleep on a pile of pine boughs. No, thanks. There are groups that adhere to exact historicity, but they are very tight groups. Thanks, Roundball, for the comment about people taking potshots instead of getting into the spirit of the thinng. I agree, we should strive for some degree of accuracy, but it is impossible to be 100% historically correct. If you disagree with that statement, fire back! I know I could be wrong. :relax:

 

[leslie]

This kind of reminds of the time I asked a clerk in a lumber yard a simple question about treated wood and got complete instructions on how to build a fence.If I ask someone a question I expect an honest answer and I think that is what the guy that started the thread got,enough allready.My experience is that anyone who is really into something is passionate about it and that is often intepreted as being snobbish or as PC nazi.I wish we could lose the term nazi to describe anyone it really is an offensive term and I would hope no one really means it.Please excuse the soapbox.

 

[booshway]

Sorry for my comments. I should have gone to the beginning of the thread instead of picking up on the period correctness thing. Just for the record, I am not against demanding period correctness when the historicity is the point. I agree that the discussion got off track. I learned a lesson.

 

[roundball]

My apologies if I somehow hijacked a thread...must have forgotten where I was...wasn't my intent at all.

And for the record...as I actually mentioned in my attempt to clarify...I completely respect any/all folks who are far along into PC related details and activites and in no way deserve to be called anti-pc as that is not the case.

So once again, my apologies to all if I allowed myself to drift off course...

:redthumb:

 

[Packdog]

If I took it all wrong then I appoligize to everyone that has read my post.

:sorry:

I already appoligized early but I'll do it again. Sorry for whatever part I may have had in getting this off track. Lets move on and get back to igniting powder with a rock.

I did enjoy reading all the different points of view though.

PD