Coup de Grace

[loki04]

Sirrah,

My apologies if I sounded belittling as to some of the methods that were used; that was not my intent. I base my decision not to use a knife to finish a wounded large animal on my experience in having to put down a German Shepard with a broken back some years back. Because of this, and my dissatisfaction of a job not done perfectly when I should have done it perfectly, I started this thread to try to find alternatives to that situation, and on the more likely situation of a wounded deer.

I am not trying to change anyone's mind, just trying to deal with the fact that I do not have the luxury of practice or experience to tell what the best (for me) methods may be.

I am enjoying the knowledge that asking questions here seems to bring, such as the fact that I had not thought of shooting at the base of the skull, nor had I known that cutting with the hair means a blade stays sharper longer.

Keep the good ideas and thoughts coming please.

Courteously,
Loki

 

[S.Kenton]

OK.. so how much is a bullet worth? VS. the chance your taking by assuming the animal that you have paralyzed is not gonna flail his large rack ( assuming it's a buck) and catch you off guard? Yes, my 14 yr old son reads some of the discussions on this forum.He loves shooting, BP rifles and many conventional firearms. He also deer hunts side by side with me.Yes, I had to tell him that one of the ppl on here is having a brainfart if he thinks that slitting a live White tail deers throat is not only SAFE.. but a good idea! To each his own.. personally I'll spend a bullet.. rather than taking foolish chances..as for worrying about kids, I am guessing you have none..nor grandchildren. I'm done with this conversation.

 

[Eric Krewson]

I have dispatched two wounded deer with my knife. I don't go for the throat but make a quick thrust to the ribcage. The lungs collapse and the deer will die from blood loss and lack of oxygen in about 30 seconds.

We all know how lethal a sharp broadhead through the lungs is, same with a sharp knife.

 

[Herb]

I have stuck a dying buck with a knife at the base of the throat, but this is a dangerous thing to do. I know of a person who tried to cut the throat of a deer hit by a car, and that doe struck the man in the throat with her hoof and cut his juglar vein. The man died. I shot this antelope buck at about 90 yards as he was walking but did not lead him. The ball hit his liver, he walked off and laid down but was still alive. I wanted to save the cape to give to a taxidermist so did not want to cut the throat. I walked to within about 12 feet of him and shot him again with my .54 Green River Leman, using 120 grains of Goex 2F and a roundball. I shot him behind the leg, through the heart, and he died. The reason I tell this is, when I skinned him I found that ball had gone through the body and hit the other front leg bone. It flattened out about half dollar size and did not even crack that bone!

 

[roundball]

I know of a person who tried to cut the throat of a deer hit by a car, and that doe struck the man in the throat with her hoof and cut his juglar vein. The man died.

It's too bad that happened to him of course...but its obvious that one of two things happened:
He either misread the situation and/or executed it completely wrong.
And the rare example like this can cause some people to generalize that it should never be done by anybody under any circumstances.

Obviously many people have no experience in such matters and absolutely should never even think about doing such things...but across the board statements that nobody should do these things is simply wrong.
That thnking assumes and generalizes everything into the same exact set of circumstances...assumes every deer situation is the same, assumes every deer situation is misread, and assumes the action will be incorrectly executed.

Fact is there are some perfectly safe circumstances where this can be done, and done properly, safely, etc.....but those who have no knowledge or experience in this area should probably not try it.
And for sure people should stop insisting that everybody else in the world must do things their way.
:wink:

 

[Dave K]

Don't know why I am adding to this fire. But, we all KNOW,you should reload as soon as reasonably possible after taking a hunting shot. If the game is trying to drag itself around trying to make another run for it, shoot it again and reload again. Why the discussion on this? Why is your gun not loaded? What are you going to do with the load that is in, now that your tag will be filled after this deer is down and dead? Better to waste the load in your gun to finish the deer, then to waste the animal that gets up and runs after being wounded. So, now you have given the Coup de Grace, the animal is not suffering, it is DEAD. I have heard of deer lost, by the hunter who chose to use the knife as well. Since you would be unloading your gun anyhow, it now is. There is no chance of putting yourself in harms way needlessly, by getting up close and personal to an animal that may not have surrendered.I have heard on more than one occasion about the hunter who lost his deer because they wanted to use their knife. In all cases they had laid down their gun, drew their knife only to waste the game by watching run away.Why wasn't their gun reloaded and trained on the animal to finish it, in case it wasn't dead? Keep the knife sheathed, use the gun to finish the job. Then use the knife for one of the main reasons I carry it and that is too field dress with it. I have not seen any records on this, but I do know people have injured by using a knife to finish the job. I am sure there has been people injured by using a gun as well, but I haven't heard of those stories, yet.

 

But, we all KNOW,you should reload as soon as reasonably possible after taking a hunting shot. If the game is trying to drag itself around trying to make another run for it, shoot it again and reload again. Why the discussion on this?

Because some have to convince others that their "experience" outweighs common sense and the universal, "if it ain't dead, shoot it again" (ZERO RISK to the hunter) practice. :wink:

 

[Black Hand]

Don't know why I am adding to this fire. But, we all KNOW,you should reload as soon as reasonably possible after taking a hunting shot. If the game is trying to drag itself around trying to make another run for it, shoot it again and reload again. Why the discussion on this? Why is your gun not loaded? What are you going to do with the load that is in, now that your tag will be filled after this deer is down and dead? Better to waste the load in your gun to finish the deer, then to waste the animal that gets up and runs after being wounded. So, now you have given the Coup de Grace, the animal is not suffering, it is DEAD. I have heard of deer lost, by the hunter who chose to use the knife as well. Since you would be unloading your gun anyhow, it now is. There is no chance of putting yourself in harms way needlessly, by getting up close and personal to an animal that may not have surrendered.I have heard on more than one occasion about the hunter who lost his deer because they wanted to use their knife. In all cases they had laid down their gun, drew their knife only to waste the game by watching run away.Why wasn't their gun reloaded and trained on the animal to finish it, in case it wasn't dead? Keep the knife sheathed, use the gun to finish the job. Then use the knife for one of the main reasons I carry it and that is too field dress with it. I have not seen any records on this, but I do know people have injured by using a knife to finish the job. I am sure there has been people injured by using a gun as well, but I haven't heard of those stories, yet.

I reload after every shot, but I WILL NOT shoot an animal a second time unless it is getting up to run (which I have never had happen). If down, but still alive, I use the knife. The gun is loaded just in case another deer or a curious bear/Mountain lion comes by (I hunt in Black bear and Grizzly country). If I don't need the shot, I pull the ball. The un-used powder goes back in the horn and the ball goes to be re-cast. Why waste the powder and ball if you don't need to...?

 

[roundball]

I am sure there has been people injured by using a gun as well, but I haven't heard of those stories, yet.

:hmm: ...There are many hunting gun related injuries & deaths reported every year...and the antis constantly use references like that to try and outlaw guns, etc.

Some in the hunting fraternity here are ignoring those gun related injuries and deathes, not saying a word about stopping the use of guns...yet this very thread has an undercurrent of thinking just like the antis except the subject is knives.

To repeat, anyone who doesn't have the knowledge and experience to read a situation and safely use a knife under those conditions shouldn't even think about it.

IMO the position that everybody else shouldn't do something is what's dangerous...its just like the antis thinking.

As far as I'm concerned if anyone wants to shoot a deer a dozen times with guns...that are widely reported as causing injuries & death every year...feel free.
Nobody is trying to convince the masses that they should use knives..the primary discussion on knives has simply been about how inappropriate it is for some others to make acoss the board statements insisting its too dangerous and shouldn't be done...sounding just like the antis.

:wink:

 

[Dave K]

Common sense? :idunno: here!? I have no idea why the absolute, "I will not shoot one again." Why, powder and ball that expensive? Like to personally feel their life leave their body, when you knife tham? Makes good common sense.......opps, there is that thought I should have known when I posted to this thread! LOL Of course in here in Ohio,you cannot have any gun ready to shoot, until.... 1. the deer you just shot is tagged also, before attempting to shoot another deer.Illegal to also carry a back up gun in the field as well. Also,easier to tag when they are dead too. The game warden, just may give you a scolding if he walks up and sees you with a bloody knife and a deer still not tagged.I have heard them say to many, there is no reason to have an illegible tag because of blood on it. The tagging is the FIRST thing you do, when you take a deer. Then you can gut it......2,You can have a loaded gun if you still have a tag you can fill and the other deer is tagged.

 

[Robby]

I have done it both ways, with a knife, and with a bullet. Just read the situation, and proceed accordingly. I don't understand what the problem is. :idunno:
Robby

 

[Black Hand]

Common sense? :idunno: here!? I have no idea why the absolute, "I will not shoot one again." Why, powder and ball that expensive? Like to personally feel their life leave their body, when you knife tham? Makes good common sense.......opps, there is that thought I should have known when I posted to this thread! LOL Of course in here in Ohio,you cannot have any gun ready to shoot, until.... 1. the deer you just shot is tagged also, before attempting to shoot another deer.Illegal to also carry a back up gun in the field as well. Also,easier to tag when they are dead too. The game warden, just may give you a scolding if he walks up and sees you with a bloody knife and a deer still not tagged.I have heard them say to many, there is no reason to have an illegible tag because of blood on it. The tagging is the FIRST thing you do, when you take a deer. Then you can gut it......2,You can have a loaded gun if you still have a tag you can fill and the other deer is tagged.

Dave,
Rather than cherry-picking the post to fit your needs, perhaps you should re-read the full text:
"but I WILL NOT shoot an animal a second time unless it is getting up to run."

I won't shoot a second time because it is wasteful, noisy and I prefer to use a knife. I also do not like to "advertise" my position when in the woods. A single shot is tough to locate, 2 shots are a beacon, and 3 or more are center-fire rifle hunters.

As to the rest, regulations vary from state to state. There is no fixed way that a deer must be "finished off" in the MT gun season, but a tag must be affixed to the carcass as immediately as possible. It isn't a carcass UNTIL it is dead....

I guess it boils down to the fact that not everyone should use a knife to accomplish the task. But then again, there are some people out there that shouldn't be allowed to drive, talk or chew gum and walk....

 

[Dave K]

Black Hand, Your right, I didn't read it well enough to see that you had said if it were to get up and run. But, I have seen some that appear to be down and out and next they you know, they are out of here! Anyhow, I am able to walk and chew gum as well.

 

[Robert Egler]

Ok, here's the solution: Always attach a bayonet to your gun, regardless of type, so you can then bayonet the animal while still keeping a safe distance, and you don't have to shoot it again. :surrender: I think I'll duct tape a SMLE 1907 bayonet onto my hawkin because it has a longer reach :blah:

 

[S.Kenton]

:haha: Thats just GOOD COMMON SENSE!!!!! :blah:

 

[Herb]

I have known of hunters, and some of you do, too, who, upon walking up to the downed buck deer or bull elk, place their rifle across the antlers and prepare to cut its throat or take a photo of it. But wounded buck or bull jumps up and runs off with the rifle in its antlers!

 

[roundball]

No, I don't know of any.

And those you refer to obviously failed the first step...didn't read the situation right, did they.

So..."the Darwin Award goes to"...LOL

 

[Stumpkiller]

Interesting side thought: a knife is not a legal hunting implement in NY and I don't think it's legal to use one to kill a deer; even a wounded deer. :hmm: :rotf:

 

[Britsmoothy]

Amazing int' it, everyone is concerned with others safety, sweet really.

Hmmm, maybe we need to stop driving cars and riding bikes too.

How about a harness for the stairs! :shake:

B.

 

[roundball]

Its an aspect of human nature in all if us...to defend long held beliefs when our beliefs are being challenged. Defensive statements get thrown up to deflect the discussion away from the primary point with comments like "how much does another bullet really cost", etc.
When we reach that mode of a discussion it's clear the defending party knows there's no logic / rationale to support a position...in this case, an across the board statement that no body should do such and such because its too dangerous.
And in this case, it also tells me there's a lack of first hand knowledge / experience with such things so there's fear / fear of the unknown, etc...otherwise those statements wouldn't be made.

Maybe some of us older ones are lucky to have been raised on farms through the 40's/50's/60's handling livestock 24x7x365, feeding/birthing/putting some down...breeding/raising then slaughtering hogs and black angus every year, and the deer hunting with a Grandfather/Father/Uncles learning these things...my guess is a lot of folks here on this MLF probably haven't participated in much of that at all...maybe most hunting and butchering is just a textbook reference.

A vidid memory I've had in my head for the past 61 years was a particular hog slaughtering that took place when I was 5 in the dead of winter in the Adirondacks, a foot of fresh snow on the ground.
Family needed food, my Grandfather & Father dragged a good hog out into the barnyard by his ears, and with one quick slice slit his throat...bright red blood all over that white snow until he fell 10-20 seconds later.
Its life...you watch and learn when you're very young on the farm, then as you get older you step in and start handling those same chores...you learn how to read animals, you learn what not to do approaching an animal that can hurt you, etc...and by the time you're on in years its just second nature...ie: a deer is no different than a black angus, a hereford, a hog, etc