critiques please

[dancote]

So...got my stuff fromTrack of the Wolf and went out to the woods to shoot my .45 cal T/C Hawken for the first time today!!! My dad gave it to me over xmas and it is probably from the 80's or so. It has a brass ramrod and does not say Hawen on barrel. Anyway, here is what I did and see if I could improve on any of these steps.

Initial cleaning: Soaked bore solvent in the barrel for about 20 min. Swabbed with jag Flushed out some old cleaning patch with what looked like oil on it. Flushed a bunch of windex down the barrel and pumped it with the jag. Next put in mineral spirits and let it set for about 5 min and swabbed and drained. I boiled water and made a soapy water mix in a bucket. Removed nipple and started pumping the stuff up into barrel. Then used a .45 cal brush for awhile. Then poured boiling water down barrel and swabbed it dry. I ran a wd40 patch then another dry patch before going out to shoot.

Shooting: The No. 11 caps did not seem to fit! I had to press them down carefully over the nipple with the ball starter and this did not seem right. Could it be that there are larger sized caps than I thought the gun took? I couldn't tell by eye if the nipple was flarred at the top but maybe that's it. Anyway, it was a pain getting them on there.

I fired off a few caps (starting to get fun!) then poured a 30 gr load of fffg with a folded wad over the top and shot it off (getting more exciting!) finally put in 60 gr fffg and shot balls for awhile at a wrist sized branch I put up in the snow. It was a LOT of fun! The wads were blown to small pieces and lying all over the snow (I thought they were supposed to stay together?) The ball did not seem too hard to push down the barrel once started. I have .440 balls and .015 lubed patches. I swabbed out with bore solvent saturated patch every few shots. After a few rounds i could not get the gun to fire until I had snapped 4 caps on it. Decided to go home then.

Questions: Is WD40 a good oil to leave in the bore to prevent rust if I run a dry patch after it? Are there larger caps that would fit better? Should my patches be blown to finger nail sized blackened pieces? Why is it almost impossible to pull the cleaning jag sometimes but other times it pumps so nicely? Could it be some corrosion in the bore that it is catching on from the gun sitting so long? How do you guys get a good look in these bores for pitting and corrosion?

Thanks to anyone who has any tips for me and thanks for reading all that!!!

Dan

 

[Eric Krewson]

Sounds like over kill on your cleaning procedure, All you need to do is remove you nipple, pull the barrel, dunk the breech end in a bucket of water, insert ramrod with patch and pump til all the crud is out. Remove the barrel from the water and run dry patches down it, pumping hard to blow any remaining water out the drum. When you are sure the barrel is dry run an oily patch down it and store your gun muzzle down to make sure the inevitable left over oil doesn't run down in your breech.

If you are blowing cloth patches to bits I suspect you have some serious pitting in your barrel. If you want to see the inside of the bore you can buy a neat little light at O Riley auto parts that makes a perfect bore light. It is about 3/16th in diameter and 3 " long and is called a "Super Ray", very,very bright.

It wouldn't shoot after a few shots you probably had it pretty crudded up with the first squib loads or had left it oiled up with the muzzle up after you cleaned it which increased fowling build up during your shooting session.

 

[smo]

#11 caps is what should be used what type of lube did you use on your patches? If you look in the fishing department for those small lighted fishing floats made by Thrill they work great for a bore light and will even fit in a 32 cal

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Sounds like you're fixing to get hooked on BP! First a TC, then it's gonna be pistols and flintlocks and shotguns or whatever else :haha:
It is possible that dry firing has caused the nipple to mushroom slightly or that the particular brand of caps is just a little tight for your gun.

So the patches were desintagrating? That could be as a result of a rough bore tearing them up or the rifling cutting them. You might try going with a smaller ball and a thicker patch. You could also try using FFG instead of FFFG.

It is possible that the fouling was getting pushed down toward the breech when swabbing, causing ignition problems, or it could be excess moisture from the solvent making the powder harder to ignite.

I typically avoid petroleum oils for protecting my bore, I really like cabelas muzzleloading lube or TC bore butter, both are al natural and will "season" your bore, making it more resistant to corrosion and will aid in loading.

You can use some of those lure lights that they have at takle shops or you could use luminocks for arrows. For 54 caliber or larger guns, I use my tiny maglite and drop that down the bore. Another way to do it (what I do for my 45s is drop something shiny down the bore, a cartridge casing that fits fairly loosely ( don't want it getting stuck!) with the head polished up works well, then just shine a light down the bore with that.

A proper jag is supposed to be easy to push down the bore, and then kind of bunch up the patch to pull the fouling out of the bore, rather than stuff it down into the breech. By that token, a breech face scraper is a very very good thing to have for all your calibers.

Hope this helps some!

 

[smo]

By that token, a breech face scraper is a very very good thing to have for all your calibers.

Hope this helps some!

TC has a patten breech scraper won't help on them

 

[dancote]

Oh gosh! You think the patches coming to pieces could mean major pitting? I was afraid of that because my dad, who gave it to me, doesn't take care of his stuff in the obsessive compulsive manner I do. I don't think he ever shot it more than a few times but I doubt he cleaned it properly. Note my method above was maybe 'over kill' but, that gun hadn't been shot in 30 years and I wanted to clean it good. What should I do now than? Does it suggest the gun is not safe?!

 

[19 16 6]

You should get a good look down the bore before deciding anything.
Like the falla's were saying, get the light & look.
When you can say for sure what the bore condition is then these fella's here can give you a number of options.
O.

 

[mooman76]

Were those new patches you used? Old pre lubed patches especially can deteriorate over time. If your dad hadn't shot it much it might not even be broke in and the lands could be sharp yet tearing up the patches.
As far as the caps go. It is not that uncommon to have poor cap fit. Some caps run a little smaller or larger than others. You could remove the nipple and place it in a drill and sand it a little to make it smaller or buy a new nipple. They are cheap. Sand a little at a time though, you don't want to over do it.

 

[Grizzly Adams]

My TC had been neglected somewhat by the previous owner and had been sitting without liking or maintenance for at least 15 years and the bore had a good amout of rust in it. I used 0000 steel wool and a lot of WD-40 to get the rust out and the bore is now shiny with only a few small rough spots. That gun is astonishingly accurate. I would do as others have said and take a good look at the bore before doing anything. Pictures of the bore would be appreciated if possible. I would not be concerned about the gun being unsafe with the pitting, if existent. I had an Investarms .54 that had a far less than stellar bore (lots of small pits) and that gun proved to be very accurate. So if your gun does end up having a rough bore, it may still not shoot too bad!

 

[hawkeye2]

" folded wad over the top and shot it off (getting more exciting!) finally put in 60 gr fffg and shot balls for awhile at a wrist sized branch I put up in the snow. It was a LOT of fun! The wads were blown to small pieces and lying all over the snow (I thought they were supposed to stay together?)"

I understand that you first fired it with a blank load you used a folded piece of cloth over the powder as a wad. In the last sentence quoted, referring to firing live loads, you are calling what are commonly called patches wads. Were you indeed using the cloth as a wad by simply placing it in the bore over the powder and before the ball or were you "patching" by wrapping the ball in the cloth as you load? If you were using the cloth as a wad rather than a patch I could understand it being blown to pieces. If you were actually patching the ball then your patch/ball combo may be far too small or there may be problems with your bore. While you were doing all that cleaning did you see any signs of rust coming out on any of the cleaning patches? Did you use a snug fitting patch at any stage of the cleaning and if so did you notice any tendency for it to get tight or hang up at spots of did you feel varying resistance or rough spots in the barrel? These would be symptoms of bore problems.

 

[dancote]

I thank you all for your suggestions and wisdom. I was indeed using a patched round ball. Got the prelubed patches from Track of the Wolf just this past week so they are fresh and sealed. When I cleaned there were times when some brown streaks were present on the patches, but mostly a grayish colored series of streaks. The best I could see down the bore showed little brown-greenish fouling or residue. But could nt see down to far ....I will try to get a light and look! Glad it may still be a good shooter even if it wasn't taken good care of in it's early life! I will also try to modify the nipple or get a new one. Oh and the tight cleaning patch covered jag only got very difficult to pull out if I put it all the way to the breech sometimes. But odd, because it seemed to go very easily there other times...maybe made a vacuum sometimes??

 

[bpd303]

Not a vacuum on the tight patches but if they were dry they will stick especially if the bore is a little rough. Make sure the ends of the ram rod are pined so they don't pull off which will be a big problem. As far as the tight caps go it could be the nipple is mushroomed from dry firing. As was said it can be trued up by chucking the nipple in a drill and using a file or sand paper to bring it back into shape, or better yet replace the nipple.

 

[robert1]

I stuck a piece of foil tape to the base of a .38 case and dropped it down my .45 barrel. Works great. Tried reflective tape as well, that's good too.
edit. didn't mean in response to the above poster, just in general. I'll get the hang of this yet.

 

[Dphar]

BP fouling dissolves almost instantly in water. Not need for extended soaks.
Dan

 

[Dphar]

If WD 40 gets in the wood it penetrates very deeply.
First choice is G96 Gun Treatment. Second choice is another good light gun oil. Break Free gums up so I avoid it unless for years long storage. Run the patch up and down 2-3 times then stand the gun muzzle down on a folded paper towel to keep oil from running out the vent or nipple and onto/into the stock. Next day store as you like.

Dan

 

[mooman76]

I have used WD40 but I live in a dry climate and it's only good for short term storage. For longer or more humid areas, you need something better.

 

[AZbpBurner]

I have used WD40 but I live in a dry climate and it's only good for short term storage. For longer or more humid areas, you need something better.

And that 'something better' is ... Birchwood Casey's Barricade. It is nearly universally accepted as the best protection short of RIG grease.

 

[dancote]

So today I went to Gander Mt and picked up one of those little red fishing bobber lights and dropped it down the muzzle. It was a bit difficult to tell what I was looking at because I am staring down into the bright light. But, it looked pretty shiny from what I could make out. I could follow each of the lands all the way down to the light and they seemed smooth. Any minor stuff would have been hard to see in the glare...but at least no obvious rust plaques or scales. I wonder if it was only shot once or twice as was mentioned up top and is still sharp...therefore cutting the patches up?

 

[bpd303]

Some barrels do need to be shot around 100 times to break in. New barrels are notorious for tearing up patches. Sounds like that is what is happening. Sometimes running a small square of green scotch brite scrubber pads down on your jag will help smooth the sharp edges. Another thing to look at is the muzzle which can cut patches when loading. You can smooth the crown by using some 400-600 grit wet or dry sand paper. Put a small piece of paper over the muzzle and with your thumb rotate the paper back & forth, rotate the rifle and repeat until the sharp edges of the rifling are smoothed out. Another problem may be your .015 patches are too thin. If you can start them with your thumb and they go down loose, you might try a little thicker patch or a .445 ball. How was the accuracy?

 

[dancote]

Thank you for the suggestions! I will check for sharp spots. I think the fit of the patches was probably pretty good because I could not push in by hand but had to use a starter which worked fine with a few light smacks. I wish I knew the accuracy better but was just out in the deep snow shooting at a wrist thick branch stuck in the snow at just 20 yards. I shot through it each time and was happy with that. but will try longer shots later. I did note that the set trigger was so light that I didn't even hardly touch it and it would go off .... guess I'll need to fix that because I can't settle in and squeeze ...just goes off. This Hawken has a brass rod. I haven't seen much of them because it seems there are lots of fiberglass and stuff. Is the brass ok on the rifling and such?