Custom built vs. kit guns

[Murv]

I was having a discussion the other day with my uncle in regard to Custom built muzzleloaders, adn Kit guns. I tried to explain to him why I went with a custom built flintlock, but I was'nt too convincing as to why I needed to do that as opposed to buying a kit gun.
I'd appreciate any thoughts on this,,,
Murv

 

[rabjr]

To get closer to your fore fathers..

 

[shootemup]

Gosh I don't know, how about "because I'm paying for it, that's what I want, and it's none of your business, thank you very much"?

Just a thought... :grin:

 

[dyemaker]

Custom fit?

 

[Black Hand]

With a custom gun you get a custom gun, with a kit gun you get a gun others have that you customize....

 

[roundball]

Gosh I don't know, how about "because I'm paying for it, that's what I want, and it's none of your business, thank you very much"?

Just a thought... :grin:

:grin:

There IS that...and/or as in my case...I don't have the time, space, patience, knowhow, proper tools, or skills to use them properly, etc, etc.
Some things are just best left to others who specialize in certain fields, kind of like why I didn't do my own quadruple bypass heart surgery 10 years ago...

 

[Rogue River]

What were his objections?

 

[Zonie]

If by "kit gun" you were talking about the various Factory made kits like Lyman and Traditions sells a possible reason you don't want one is because there are very few different styles available and they all are the same guns the companies sell as production (finished) guns.
If one of these isn't to your liking, enough said.

As for the "kits" sold by Chambers, Track of the Wolf, Pecatonica River, Muzzleloader Builder's Supply and others these are boxes of basic hardware like raw castings, screws, roughed out stock, semi finished locks etc.. All parts require a great deal of work to make them presentable and each part must then be installed which requires hand fitting.
Many people don't feel they have the time or the skills to do this.

You didn't mention the "in the white" guns that are available from some suppliers.
These are basically the more advanced "kits" which are assembled but the wood and metal parts are left unfinished. The stock requires sanding, staining and a coating of stock finish.
The metal parts require browning, bluing, "aging" or polishing.
The prices of these is less than a finished "custom" gun and the owner can take pride in doing the finishing.

Even this is beyond some peoples spare time limits or skills which leaves a "Custom Gun" as the only viable option for the person who doesn't want a used gun or a Factory made gun.

 

[tg]

I think a better definition of terms may be in order, you can take a set of parts from Chambers and with the right skill sets end up with a gun as custom as one made by most any of the well known builders providing finished guns, for me these "higher" level guns/parts sets allow one to have a gun that is as close to the originals in form and function and quite a bit above the "production" level guns in the historical accuracy department, like if you want a real high level piece of art work a Rembrandt or other classic work would likley be considered over "Dogs playing Poker"and with guns like art thne price can be an indicator of what level one is at, as the lock on a fine, quality gun may cost as much as the whole kit for a production level gun, nothing WRONG with production guns, they fill a large niche at an affordable price and a stepping stone of sorts towards the higher level of guns for many.

 

[oldude]

I think its what you wanted and its your money should be enough.Todays customs are fine works of art in most cases and you get what you pay for. However 95% of our forfathers like us shot hand me downs as in hand me down that rifle off the rack and let me look at it. Even the old boys back east went to a gun maker and got one(new or used)off the rack and if they did ORDER one made they might have choosen bore size,lenght and maybe flint or perc. but for the most they got what ever lock/stock/barrel that maker had on hand or used or made.Guns of old were tools and if a $50 tool did the job then why spend $500 to do the same job?
Now if you got the bucks get the customs,but for most of us new to ML we just want to give er a try so we buy whats advailable or affordable.Then we start see'n HC/PC and its scare the hell outa some to think they gotta stay in the closet until they got a $2000. gun and drop $2000.on an outfit just to be HC/PC when all we wanna do is shoot and learn. No wonder so many go with them new fangled front stuffers, them folks don't care what side of your hat you wear you imatation eagle feather or if the scales on your bowie are resin and not bone.
I ride a harley,alot of clubs will not allow you membership if you don't(and yes I have been in some of them clubs)But I feel if your on two wheels it beats the hell out of a cage.
OK I think I'm done venting for now sorry folks

IF YOU WANT A CUSTOM GO FOR IT.
MY first encounter wern't with a 10 but that 2 shor showed me I liked girls and I been tradin up ever since. Bent

 

[roundball]

I think its what you wanted and its your money should be enough.Todays customs are fine works of art in most cases and you get what you pay for. However 95% of our forfathers like us shot hand me downs as in hand me down that rifle off the rack and let me look at it. Even the old boys back east went to a gun maker and got one(new or used)off the rack and if they did ORDER one made they might have choosen bore size,lenght and maybe flint or perc. but for the most they got what ever lock/stock/barrel that maker had on hand or used or made.Guns of old were tools and if a $50 tool did the job then why spend $500 to do the same job?
Now if you got the bucks get the customs,but for most of us new to ML we just want to give er a try so we buy whats advailable or affordable.Then we start see'n HC/PC and its scare the hell outa some to think they gotta stay in the closet until they got a $2000. gun and drop $2000.on an outfit just to be HC/PC when all we wanna do is shoot and learn. No wonder so many go with them new fangled front stuffers, them folks don't care what side of your hat you wear you imatation eagle feather or if the scales on your bowie are resin and not bone.
I ride a harley,alot of clubs will not allow you membership if you don't(and yes I have been in some of them clubs)But I feel if your on two wheels it beats the hell out of a cage.
OK I think I'm done venting for now sorry folks

IF YOU WANT A CUSTOM GO FOR IT.
MY first sexual encounter wern't with a 10 but that 2 shor showed me I liked girls and I been tradin up ever since. Bent

Well said...after 8-9 years of T/C Hawken caplocks, then 9-10 years of T/C Hawken Flintlocks, I finally got some custom Early Virginias built for retirement. And while they're prettier to look at than all the T/C Hawkens I accumulated, at the end of the hunting season the deer tag holes I punched in my license don't look a bit different than the holes did when I punched them with those T/C Hawkens.
:wink:

 

[Murv]

I suppose maybe I wasn't clear enough when I mentioned "kits". What I really meant were "factory made guns" that are mass produced.
I didn't really give an answer to why I went with a custom built gun, except that I wanted something that was closer to being "original" or "personal", maybe something I'd have that was a bit different than anybody else's., I think he's on the fringe of getting into reenacting so I don't want to say anything that will discourage that desire. If he wants a factory made gun then so be it, if he'd choose to go down the path I chose then so be it....
I have worked really hard at making my personna look very "period" correct, and unique to me in that regard...but what other people do with there personnas is totally up to them, and the effort in which they want to invest...
I do it to honor those people who came before me, and in some small way let's me see what they endured to help make this country the greatest in the world!
Murv

 

[hanshi]

Gotcha. For me, going "custom" was the logical culmination of over 35 years of OTC guns, some of them, replicas. Yeah, the cost can (but not always) be considerably more than most OTC guns but then, they are made to fit YOU and be historically accurate, if that's what you want. Custom guns are almost guaranteed to be accurate but not necessarily more accurate than some imports. Having a gun with your lop, barrel & lock choice, desired wood and mountings, not to mention beauty, is definitely worth saving for.

 

[Otter]

Murv, I kinda agree with Spot on this one. You don't need to "explain" to or "convince" your uncle as to the whys of any decision you make, unless he's offering to pay for whatever you want. And if that be the case, let him buy you a TC or a GPR or whatever, then you order a custom, if that's what you want. That way you satisfy both of you and you get two rifles.

 

[tg]

I see nothing wrong with your uncle trying to understand the attraction to a different level of gun and what you just said would probably suffice, getting closer to the originals and maybe in cases a better quaility are pretty good reasons, certainly there is no reason to get snooty as he may be trying to understand from a historical position, many get their shorts in a wad whenever this comes up and there is no reason, you seem to have it handled pretty well I would think. I think some just get rude to try and project a bravado as they seem to find a need to defend their own choices which is really not required nor asked for in a situation as yours and a with question like you phrased it.I hope you and your uncle can share some time togther at the range or in the woods whatever choice in guns he may choose.
I would really like the references that show how 95% of gun sales were conducted in the 18th and first half of the 19th century what I just read is nothing quite like I have ever heard of before, probably just my inexperience in history, gun history in general., and in the decade I have been on this forum I do not recall anyone telling anyone else that the need,should, or have to be PC/HC, the definitions are often given as they apply to various products if asked specifical and in passing when giving details on a particular gun as this is a part of any guns decription not a good or bad thing just a part of the decription, some do not care to hear it but it is a valid part, one can do what they wish with the information.