Custom gun - A hanger or Shooter?

[rjm383]

After reading a rather lengthy thread on "flintlock shooting tips", I got to thinking. What are folks ideas of a custom gun? What I mean is, do poeple custom order a gun with all the nice wood & fancy furniture to impress others OR ...do people order a gun and build it with accuracy in mind? OR Both???

Few people I know will spend a lot of money if all they want is a solid hunting rifle either flint or hammer. Others will save up & order the gun of their dreas witrh all the fancy inlays, etchings, preamium wood etc etc.

I'm describing the differance between a work of "ART" vs a "TOOL".

If art is what you seek, the quality will equal your pocket book. But if its a quality shooting TOOL you seek, thats a different way of thinking.

As far as accuracy goes, first & formost, the gun must fit its shooter properly! ei- good balance, proper length in the rear stock between the butt & trigger. Good fit for the shooters hand.

Every one has a different body shape. Some have a large cheek bone others smaller & everything in between. So matching a proper drop to match the guns shooter in important.

You can be measured up till the cows come home when ordering a gun. Its a good starting point but the simplest way (in my opinion) to see if a gun/rifle fits you properly is shoulder it.

Simply pick up the gun with your eyes closed & once your in a comfortable shooting position (what ever that may be), open your eyes & see if your eyes naturally line up on the sights ...or low along the barrel. Do this a few times for conistancy.

If the gun is canted to the side if you did this or if your eyes are not aligned with the sites, this gun is NOT a good fit your you. Regardless of what a good deal it may be or how fancy it appears with all the goodies on it, you will be fighting the gun to get it to shoot good for you! Now thats not to say that someone else will not be able to shoot the thing with perfect groups...it just means that the gun fits min better than yourself!

As far as "Custom" guns go, if all you want to is impress you friends, cut a check to your gun maker & tell him you want the works.
But if you looking for a great shooter, spend your money on "FIT" first and then look into a good Lock & Trigger for smoothness & don't cheap out on a good barrel & sights.

***Lock, Stock & Barrel*** Everything else is fluff.

 

[Stumpkiller]

I don't spend as much time in the woods as I would like, so to have a really nice muzzlerloader makes the time I do spend better.

Sitting in the woods, waiting for a deer at first light, watching the sun play on the engraving and carvings and the deep grain patterns in a really nice piece of wood. Mmmmmmmm.

Mine don't shoot any better benched than the cheaper T/Cs I have used. But they fit me much better for offhand shoooting (and that includes almost ALL my hunting shots) and that helps me fill the freezer. Both rifle and fowler were made to measurements I provided based on existing stocks I like.

And they just feel so much better in the hand. Thin wrists, swamped barrels, good sights, well tuned locks that go off 100% of the time when I keep them dry.

Life is short. I have a nice rifle and a nice fowler and that covers all my muzzleloading and regular season hunting. Two good ones vs. a cabinet full of mediocre ones. :idunno: They are certainly not babied. But they do hang on the walls in my living room and I enjoy them every day as works of art. Well worth the expense to me.

 

[rjm383]

I hope I wasn't offending anyone with my post, I was mearly looking into the different thinking of what some folks ideas are regarding a custom gun.

I also agree with your view of a custom gun where you've included both Art & Tool.

Myself, a Custom gun incorerates the four "F"s.

(Fit, Function, Furniture & Finish)

Another reasons for my post is I've met a few fellows that talk & talk about what their gun has on it as oppose to what they can do with it down range. ...The excuse of "I don't want to ruin the finish by shooting it" drives me nuts! lol

 

[Capt. Jas.]

Some people buy their "tools" at harbor freight and some buy high dollar tools that are finely crafted and will usually out perform junk, usually last longer at top performance and will be worth something down the road.
That said there are a few tools I do buy at China mart central and I also buy the good stuff when it calls for it or I can afford it.

As a general rule, the fancies are carving and engraving. If I wanted a plain gun, I would have one minus those traits but the quality of the gun would be the same underneath.
If you bring wood into the equation of fancy, many fall for pretty as their "upgrade" on semi production types and get pretty soft instead.

It is important to understand that two unadorned, plain "tools" can be quite different under the hood. Also, as is often seen on these forums, there can also be quite a number of visible differences that many do not comprehend. Twenty years ago you could have put a plain (pick your favorite nea y hitter custom maker) gun beside a plain (pick your favorite semi production modern flintlock) and I would not have been able to tell much difference. Many things are glaringly different today and I learn something new each day. :thumbsup:

 

[Zonie]

To my thinking, a custom gun can be anything that wasn't factory built for no one in particular.

A Lyman GPR, TC Hawken, Traditions Deerslayer...
Those are not custom guns.

A Lyman GPR kit can become a custom gun if the builder does any modifications at all in addition to just putting it together and applying a finish.

Getting to the kind of custom guns the OP was talking about, if the gun was built for someones special requests it is a custom gun.

It could be plainer than a soda cracker or all decked out with the best of carvings and inlays complete with engraving. After all, it was built to meet the desires of one person.

As with anything, there are some who want to just possess something and there are those who want to use it.

Just because a gun has exceptional wood with nice carvings and a bunch of inlays does not make it shoot any worse than if it were plain.

More than once when I've taken one of my rifles to the shooting range I've had people ask me, "You aren't going to shoot that are you?"

My answer is always, "Damn right I'm going to shoot it. That's what I built it for."

One of my unhappier moments was when I sold one of my longrifles to a guy.
It was a Lehigh County flintlock with a honey colored curly maple stock which included several sterling silver inlays.

I spent over 1/2 hour showing him how to disassemble and reassemble it, gave him a write up on how to load it and clean it. This included the powder charge/ball/patch combination that I found which worked best in it.

When I finished he said, "Thank you for explaining all of that but I will never shoot it. It will go above my fireplace mantle."

 

***Lock, Stock & Barrel*** Everything else is fluff.

Wow, I'll bet you drive an old beat up car and never iron your clothes. :haha:

 

[54ball]

(Fit, Function, Furniture & Finish)

You won't get this now but here is some just as important.
Time, Place, & Location

These are just as important for someone wanting a very close representation of a historical piece.

Your attitude matches the southern mountains of say 1810. These were plain rural folks scraping out a living in a new and some what poor country. A fine rifle for them was a plain utilitarian piece that exhibited fine lines. Today these plain rifles are prized not only for their utility but their simple artistic merit.

Head to the eastern cities in 1810 you find finer pieces available for the more wealthy. Add competition from other builders and the pieces can be quite fancy. So much so rifles from this era are called Golden Age.

A generation before, America was part of Europe with the trade standards of the day. A plain rifle of the Colonial time was expected to have some carving and moulding in the European tradition. There were fancy pieces made but today the uneducated might consider even a plain rifle from that era to be "fancy".

To get all the details for Time Place and Location your options are researching and having a builder build it or build it yourself. The latter is easier said than done.

Like many things some like to throw their money around just to show off. You see this a lot with old cars. Like a tricked out show car some of these super high dollar pieces have little historical or even artistic merit.

 

[Trench]

Ditto. That's where I'm at in this hobby. As I got in to reinacting, this became more important to me. I started out back in 2006 with my Traditions, a utilitarian tool. In 2007 I bought a Frontier Rifle because I liked the full stock. In 2009 I wanted something more traditionally built and got a TVM. Now, I own a rifle that's style is attributed to a particular builder, a particular time, and a particular place. It's my go-to gun and I'll be using it for anything between reenacting, squirrel and deer hunting, and target shooting.

At this point, I believe all my future rifle or pistols will have to meet the Time, Place, and Location criteria on top of fit, finish, furniture, and function.

 

[ohio ramrod]

Myself I won't buy a gun that isn't for shooting(Except for two investment guns- new in case in storage ). But my brother-in-law has several custom built guns he bought and has never fired and never will. They are his "investment guns ". Like so many things about this game we play : each to his own! :idunno:

 

[Shine]

A well maintained custom gun will outlast all of us with heavy use. I have owned and shot original 200 year old guns. I wonder if the original owner ever wondered we would be still useing them. Guns are made to be shot or they wil be neglected.

 

[Trench]

A well maintained custom gun will outlast all of us with heavy use. I have owned and shot original 200 year old guns. I wonder if the original owner ever wondered we would be still useing them. Guns are made to be shot or they wil be neglected.

I agree rifles are one of those things that will always fare better with constant use and care. Original cookware fall in to that category, too.

 

[RC]

:redface: I have a beautiful custom transitional 58 rifle made by Roy Stroh,carving,wood patchbox etc. I sent it back to him to have some work done, an told him before I even sent it..this is NOT the same gun you built!!..it has been used!!, carried, hunted with, fell on, used in every sense of the word,in a tent,for 10 days at a time rain, humidity, heat, cold,...(it's still beautiful!, but is used) after he received it,,said he loved it,,he built the gun to be used,,beauty was a plus! ya get them to use thats what they for,,pretty or plain..but shoot!
custom = made for me to use! :thumbsup:

 

[garandman]

Owning guns you wouldn't shoot? What's that all about?

That kinda seems like owning food you wouldn't eat.

If I'm gonna pay cash money for a gun, it WILL be a shooter.

Others mileage may vary.

 

[roundball]

Like so many things about this game we play : each to his own! :idunno:

Exactly. In the early years I never understood why anybody "cared" what anybody else used...and worse, went out of their way to wade into discussions to take issue with someone else's choice of a muzzleloader, making uninvited / unwelcome negative comments.
Then the common shortcomings of human nature became apparent in the same handful of people over and over, to the point where their attitude and comments to anyone's post about a new muzzleloader they'd just bought were 100% predictable.

For me, my main interest has always been usage with the best quality reliability & performance I could afford for hunting and year round enjoyment at the range, with a reasonably close relationship to history being apparent.
But specific history by itself has never been my goal...taking some good deer, longbeards, squirrels with a Flintlock reasonably close to what a late 1700's settler might have used, under most all weather conditions, has always been my goals and I've achieved a lot of personal satisfaction to that end over the past 20 years.

So whether plain barn gun or a lot of carvings/inlays, it's really nobody elses business what or why anybody chooses or does what they do in this hobby.
And if I ever want anyone's opinion on a muzzleloader I've chosen it'll be obvious, because I'll follow the rules of english:
I'll make a post asking for it.

:wink:

 

[garandman]

Like so many things about this game we play : each to his own! :idunno:

Exactly. In the early years I never understood why anybody "cared" what anybody else used...and worse, went out of their way to wade into discussions to take issue with someone else's choice of a muzzleloader, making uninvited / unwelcome negative comments.

:wink:

That's generally true, but its also true that when someone asks an opinion, they should generally expect to get some. Of all manner. Many they won't care for very much.

:wink:

As I get older, I get less and less impressed of the value of my opinion, for anyone other than me. And then half the time, my opinion isn't even worth much to me.

 

[robtattoo]

I've only had one custom gun built, so far, but I had a certain budget to get it done.
I don't re-enact or try & portray someone I'm not, so time & location didn't factor for me in the least (Other than here & now)
I had the choice at my price point, of where to best concentrate my money during the build.

My choice was to plumb for the best lock, barrel & triggers I could afford; a nice, but not too fancy stock & no inlays or engraving. The money I could've spent on fancy maple & decoration I spent on having the rifle perfectly tailored to fit me, regardless of which parts matched with which. I have a Hawken Buttplate, Tennessee triggerguard, English style lock & a 42" octagon to round barrel, held in place with wedges rather than pins. I spent hours getting measured, trying different mock-up stocks, modifying mock-ups & moving weight back & forth for point of balance.

As you can probably guess, I'm a shooter not a looker!

To me it's beautiful though, because it fits, everything works perfectly & it hits what I'm looking at.

 

[Many Klatch]

My wife and I mostly shoot custom guns. Mine are not fancy hers are. Some of the guns were built to fit us and that is the whole point of having a custom gun in my opinion.

I have learned how to shoot my production gun, a Pedersoli Bess, because there wasn't much choice.

I have several bargain custom guns that I bought off of trade blankets and then reworked to suit myself. Since I didn't have a lot invested in them I could afford to make it more my gun and therefore even more "custom". The first thing I check is whether the gun fits me or not. I can pretty much fix everything else.

An old gun that is shot regularly, cleaned and oiled and not abused will outlast one that is stuck up above a fireplace.

Anyway, I don't understand people that collect and never use guns, but I appreciate them because they give all of our talented gun makers out there work. Then when the collectors weed out their collections and put them on a trade blanket that is when I can afford a nice custom gun.

Many Klatch

 

[Tumblernotch]

Whether I build it myself or buy one, no matter how much a "piece of art" it is, it will be shot, whether at the range or in the woods or both. I was at the Ohio Longrifle Collectors Show a few years ago and met a guy who had just received a custom .32 that he had waited 5 years for and paid a 5 figure price for. (He didn't give the exact price). It was beautiful. He let me handle it (which was a surprise) and it fit me quite well. I told him I bet he couldn't wait for squirrel season so he could take it out and he looked at me like I had kicked his dog. That rifle won't be shot, he said. I laid it down and said that it was worthless and walked away. I realized that he bought it as an investment or work of art, but my mindset was/is that to get the full value from a firearm is to use it from time to time and in doing so you add a patina and thereby character to a fine piece and that adds to the value (as long as it's not abused or neglected). I personally would shoot a rifle that belonged to Boone, Kenton or other historic piece as long as it was safe to do so, but that's me.

 

[kaintuck]

***Lock, Stock & Barrel*** Everything else is fluff.

Wow, I'll bet you drive an old beat up car and never iron your clothes. :haha:

but that's why they sell bikini's!!!!!!

fluff is N-I-C-E on guns/girls/gears! :rotf:

at 54, I like what i like cuz I like it~ :hatsoff:

 

[garandman]

My fettish is old guns - particularly old Springfield Armory rifles. One day I hope to add a Sharps / Spencer, etc.

While these guns are irreplacable, they will all be shot as long as they are in my care.

And maybe also hung up on the wall. :wink: