Custom gun - A hanger or Shooter?

[VEARL]

Now I know for a fact that trappers carried a Lyman GPR and had a Thompson Center Hawken rifle tied to their saddles. My old uncle told me that.
Working guns. No foo fa rah there.
:rotf:

 

[stormcrow]

As far as accuracy goes, first & formost, the gun must fit its shooter properly! ei- good balance, proper length in the rear stock between the butt & trigger. Good fit for the shooters hand.

Every one has a different body shape. Some have a large cheek bone others smaller & everything in between. So matching a proper drop to match the guns shooter in important.

You can be measured up till the cows come home when ordering a gun. Its a good starting point but the simplest way (in my opinion) to see if a gun/rifle fits you properly is shoulder it.

To me this is a bit of an oxymoron as it relates to traditional ML's. I'm not personally familiar with anyone who has purchased a traditional custom ML (at any price) based on the detailed level of "fit" you mention, but I guess it is possible if one is nearby the builder. It seems if precise fit was your priority you wouldn't be buying a historical reproduction in the first place. I'm not saying you can't have both in a traditional ML. I will never sell my custom .45 and it fits me, and shoots very well. However, if it was ultimate "fit" I was after it wouldn't have a 46" barrel (which I love) as these are just not necessary or conducive to ideal fit and balance with the modern alternatives that are available. If perfect fit and balance were my priority, I would wind up with something very similar to, or may as well just have someone modify a shorter barreled and lighter TC at a fraction of the price.

 

[cynthialee]

I have never felt that I owned a gun. I have certainly purchased a number of them and thus legaly 'owned/own them' and eventually they all have been sold or gifted and replaced with something else. Thus I am mearly the caretaker/custodian of the firearms that have graced my closet, or gun rack.
As I know that my guns will outlive me or be passed on and eventually find their way into someone elses hand who intends on shooting them; it is my moral responsibility to maintain my firearms in serviceable and safe condition.
I could not be 100% certain that a particular gun I have in the house is safe, unless I take it apart make sure it is clean and in good repair and I have fired the weapon enough times to feel certain that I can pass the firearm on. Only then can I feel like I have done my part to maintain the firearms safety.

Like I said, I am just a caretaker for a few firearms that will outlive me. I do not feel I own any of them.

make any sense?

 

[rjm383]

When I started this thread, I never fully understood the deep thoughts or views others had about their black powder guns.

Where I live, there isn't much in the way of re-enacing other than once a year on a weekend. So for me, being historicaly accurate isn't to important. Not because I don't appreatiate the signifigance, just lack of exposure.

I'm more of a shooter/hunter so my arms are bought with this purpose in mind. I DO appreatiate a very fine hand made custum gun built by a master craftsman thats fitted to the owner. But keep in mind, there are no quality gun builders anywhere near where I live!

I see that in different parts of the country, these fine crafted guns take on a different meaning to some people. I wasn't expecting to learn of this & find it interesting to see others views.

Thank you for sharing your views, I've learned something new.

 

[rabjr]

Lifes wayy to short to hunt with an ugly gun and I just plain refuse to...

 

[William O.]

For me it came down to fit and what I could afford, then I decided to get into re-enacting and based the time period on my rifle. I'll call it a semi-custom because I reused the barrel on my Lyman Trade Rifle and had the stock built with the right amount of pull, drop and offset to fit me perfectly. It is also left handed with a L&R caplock and single trigger. While the cherry wood is nice, it's been left plain with no cap box, carvings or inlays. It shoulders perfectly and shoots great, allowing me to take first place at my local shooting club. The barrel was defarbed and the factory chemical blue stripped off, then fire blued. The only upgrade I would consider is getting a better trigger assembly. It isn't a wall hanger but I do get compliments on it, so for me it is more about being able to shoot it comfortably. Now I am considering selling my factory guns in order to have the funds for TVM kit, which will be a very plain rifle with classic lines and nice wood. Function and fit will be most important to me in that regard.

 

[jethro224]

:grin: My custom, J.P. Beck influenced, Roy Stroh flintlock with fancy carving and beautiful curly maple stock went to a week long rondy with me before I ever took it home.
A year ago last May, I picked it up at Roy's place in GA where I shot it a little bit out back, drove to a rondy in TN and shot it some more to get better aquainted, spent a week in a diamond shelter with it and shot it some more, spent another week camping in Southern IL, and then finally took my new rifle home. Since then the rifle has been out in every kind of weather, killed deer, been to rondys, been to ranges, been to Friendship, been to 5 states,... She's beautiful and I love 'er, but, like I told Roy, this rifle is gonna get shot and used. She ain't gonna be a safe queen. :thumbsup:

 

[Billnpatti]

***Lock, Stock & Barrel*** Everything else is fluff.

This is quite true from a purely pragmatic point of view. If a purely functional gun is your desire, you can stop there. But, if you, like me, enjoy the good feeling that an attractive piece of functional art gives, then go for all of the fluff you want and can afford. In the end, it is all about the personal choices that we all make when building or purchasing a rifle. The choice is a personal thing and yours to make. :thumbsup:

 

[Leatherbelly]

Some of us seem to start plain and move along from there. My first few rifles were good shooting tools but lacked any PC/HC attributes. A learning curve followed and now I only want guns that are PC. Hey, that's how they made them in the day,that's how I want mine. It doesn't end there. The clothing,accoutrements,footwear etc., all need to match closely.It's fun to go to rondy's with stuff that matches your persona, and it's a pile of work and research. This is all fun for me.And, there is always room for improvement.My quest is to be as primitive as is historically correct. Anyone else travel this path?
Custom made PC/HC guns seem to "come alive" in my hands. There is some soul to them whereas others that are mass produced feel like dead fish.JMHO tho.

 

[Leatherbelly]

I'm with you Jethro. Mine are fancy but I use them just like I'd use a barn gun. Used,not abused.

 

[Leatherbelly]

Zonie,you forgot TVM,lol!

 

[roundball]

Zonie,you forgot TVM,lol!

Actually, I'm not sure that he did...TVM makes two kinds of guns:

1) Models that are built with their default standards and components.

2) Models that are custom built to specific, unique customer requirements;

For example, my 4 TVM Virginias & Lancasters are all custom built using specific selected wood, furniture, finish, LOP, drop, cast off, barrels, sights, locks, triggers, etc...specified in work orders.

 

[Zonie]

Right you are, roundball.

Because they do make custom rifles I intentionally left them out of the "Factory" makers.

 

[Leatherbelly]

Sorry guys,I'm pulling your legs!(re tvm) Hey, some don't look too bad. Others,well I'm not going there anymore as they have a large following here.
Customs; plain or fancy? I like them both ways depending where they were from. I've got a fancy fowler and a dandy JP Beck.Not over embellished, but just enough to recognize the school. On the other hand,I have a relatively plain(to some) Tenn. Mtn. rifle. The architecture carries this one. With a modestly trained eye more things become apparent. These Mtn hillbillies had something else going for them, and that was their metal work.Shows on "Miss Penny". This lil 40 Tenn.,Ken Guy pulled this one off near perfectly.So it's all in the eye of the beholder.Kinda like women.Ha! No hangers here!LOL

 

[MSW]

I don't spend as much time in the woods as I would like, so to have a really nice muzzlerloader makes the time I do spend better.

Sitting in the woods, waiting for a deer at first light, watching the sun play on the engraving and carvings and the deep grain patterns in a really nice piece of wood. Mmmmmmmm.

Mine don't shoot any better benched than the cheaper T/Cs I have used. But they fit me much better for offhand shoooting (and that includes almost ALL my hunting shots) and that helps me fill the freezer. Both rifle and fowler were made to measurements I provided based on existing stocks I like.

And they just feel so much better in the hand. Thin wrists, swamped barrels, good sights, well tuned locks that go off 100% of the time when I keep them dry.

Life is short. I have a nice rifle and a nice fowler and that covers all my muzzleloading and regular season hunting. Two good ones vs. a cabinet full of mediocre ones. :idunno: They are certainly not babied. But they do hang on the walls in my living room and I enjoy them every day as works of art. Well worth the expense to me.

what he said ... is the 'custom gun' worth the extra bucks? remember that the legal definition of 'fair market value' is what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree upon (absent fraud).

are you willing to pay for the 'pretty?' ... if so, then by all means (forgive the pun) get all the bling your heart desires and your wallet can support.

if you don't like bling, that's your right, and you have every right to express it and exercise it- just don't insist that i subscribe to your views and we'll get along fine.

if you think that bling makes youe gun shoot any straighter, well, that's your right, too...

i guess what i'm getting to is tat you should do what works for you, and don't get all 'wrapped around the axle' about 'what other people think.' after all, they're 'other people...' they're not the ones shooting, or paying for your rifle...

 

[Number19]

...As far as accuracy goes, first & formost, the gun must fit its shooter properly! ei- good balance, proper length in the rear stock between the butt & trigger. Good fit for the shooters hand... Every one has a different body shape. Some have a large cheek bone others smaller & everything in between. So matching a proper drop to match the guns shooter in important...You can be measured up till the cows come home when ordering a gun. Its a good starting point but the simplest way (in my opinion) to see if a gun/rifle fits you properly is shoulder it... Simply pick up the gun with your eyes closed & once your in a comfortable shooting position (what ever that may be), open your eyes & see if your eyes naturally line up on the sights ...or low along the barrel. Do this a few times for consistancy... If the gun is canted to the side if you did this or if your eyes are not aligned with the sites, this gun is NOT a good fit your you. Regardless of what a good deal it may be or how fancy it appears with all the goodies on it, you will be fighting the gun to get it to shoot good for you!...

...I spent hours getting measured, trying different mock-up stocks, modifying mock-ups & moving weight back & forth for point of balance...

.... I'm not personally familiar with anyone who has purchased a traditional custom ML (at any price) based on the detailed level of "fit" you mention, but I guess it is possible if one is nearby the builder...

...had the stock built with the right amount of pull, drop and offset to fit me perfectly. It is also left handed with a L&R caplock and single trigger. While the cherry wood is nice, it's been left plain with no cap box, carvings or inlays. It shoulders perfectly and shoots great, allowing me to take first place at my local shooting club...for me it is more about being able to shoot it comfortably...

I'm with Stormcrow on this - how many actually get a rifle custom fit to to allow you the best shooting and, for that matter, have the opportunity to get fitted for such a gun. This, probably, is of importance only if you shoot competively, but the closest builder that I'm aware of, to me, is a 7 hour drive - and that is TVM over in Natchez. For a first time buyer it's pretty much a hit or miss - probably more miss - affair. I think I got the drop and the length of pull right, but the rest? I don't even know what a "perfect" rifle would feel like in my hands. And at 64, this rifle is probably it.

I'm lined up with the school of thought more concerned with functionality, but with the excellent advice available on this forum, went with a modest amount of incised carving which most think more properly reflects an "early" rifle. Too many guns of the federal period, in my eye, are just plain "decadent".

 

[nit wit]

That young upstart Stroh has been to our vous and gunshow in Maine.
Shine and I have Stroh guns and we are fortunate to call Roy a friend.
I do find it annoying that he is such a talent and then he comes to Maine and whips us with his smootbore :bow:
The custom gun is something to hang on the wall for folks to admire and when you need food, take her down and go kill some!
Someday someone else will fondle and shoot your gun.
For most of us by the time we can afford the good ones we don't have much time left to enjoy them.
Nit Wit

 

[robtattoo]

I guess I'm luckier than most in that respect. John Anderson who built me my rifle lives about 3 miles from my front door. During the build, he would call me over to look at, feel or try something for fit & I'd be there straight away. If there was anything I needed to show him, rather than describe over the phone, I'd run over to the shop.

 

[Trench]

My son will be the lucky recipient of my Stroh rifle. It is to stay in my family until the end of the line. A "Roy Stroh" custom curse has been applied to my rifle to ensure it stays in family hands.

 

[Rifleman1776]

Right you are, roundball.

Because they do make custom rifles I intentionally left them out of the "Factory" makers.

I know it is a hated phrase by many, but there is a place for the term "semi-custom". Methinks TVM, and others, fall squarely into that category.