Custom vs Production

[matt denison]

My first gun "way back when" was an inexpensive cap lock half stock made in Italy. I shot it a lot, got pretty good with it and liked it fine. I shoot trailwalks a lot at rendezvuos and casual plinking besides hunting. Then I noticed that I was always placing 3rd or 5th but never first. I paid attention to what the winners were shooting - custom guns with swamped barrels, good triggers and higher end barrels with better sights that fit them and held well. I knew that if I was ever going to compete with the big dogs I would need to upgrade my equipment. Now, I dont regret that first gun ( I still have it) but the custom built and very HC rifle I shooot most now gives me an edge in competition. I prove that all the time with my scores.

You'll never regret the money spent on a well built custom gun.

 

[wy0mn]

I've always used economy guns, being exclusively a blue collar meat hunter. Never made a spark, nor busted a cap, on competitive paper. I could never justify a high end piece for the use I'd make of it. If I were competing with anyone besides myself I'm sure I'd feel differently.
Most of the places I've hunted I wouldn't want a valuable firearm along. It'd be like taking a classic automobile muddin'. 'Course my Dad used a Belgian Browning 12ga to lever & hack his way thru blackberry brambles. :wink: And one stupid pack horse can destroy a fine weapon in zero flat!
And when I get the itch for something else, it doesn't require a bank loan, nor a wait of many months/years to have it in my hand.
Still, I realize my opinion is one-sided, having never wanted a custom designer firearm.

 

[ebiggs1]

“You'll never regret the money spent on a well built custom gun.”

Oh, yes you can. OK, maybe not regret the purchase because education is usually not cheap. I found out I don't like taking a piece of art into the woods and I don't like long barrels.
And as to holding thier value, they are only worth what someone will give you for it. Not what you "think" it might be worth.

 

[Stumpkiller]

“”¦but you'll enjoy the latter more.”

This and one other statement is what I take offence to.
You have no basis to make that statement since it is up to the individual and really concerns no one else.

Little else matters?

Put money on it. If you enjoy a production rifle or gun and compare that to one, even with the same barrel and furniture but with a stock fitted specifically to you and your shooting style you will enjoy the latter more.

But I guess some people take pleasure from sensations outside of the norms; so maybe you're correct in those cases.

If you shoot it better because it fits you better . . . that matters a great deal. Nothing elitist about it. Production firearms are made to fit a general generic human. If you are on the fringes it can be miserable. How many times have you heard someone say their muzzleloader beats them up even with moderate loads?

If you shoot it better because the bore is butter smooth without tooling chatter, loads a tight patch without a short starter because of the crown or is more consistant because the barrel is well bedded . . . you will enjoy it more.

 

[ebiggs1]

Folks on this forum “persuaded” me that a custom gun is the only way to go. So, I bought a gun which I will not reveal it's maker or the components it has but I suspect everyone would recognize him and them. OK, it wasn't measured for me because it is used. It worries me to death to take it hunting for fear of damaging it somehow. Plus the fact I realize I don't really like the longer barrels. It is less easy to load and much more difficult to clean. Maybe that's because I am sloppy, wife's point of view. Whatever, they are not for me and I suppose there are others.
With all that said I guess I do use a “custom” rifle because my TC Hawken is a “Franken-loader”. By this it has a TC stock, which seems to fit me fine, and lock. I have installed a 32” 50cal Green Mountain barrel and a Davis trigger. After almost three years of shooting flintlocks and the help of some of you this is my ultimate rifle.
As for your instant heirloom, I can assure you, the kids will fight over the TC Hawken cqaplock that I (dad, grandpa) got in the early 1970's, which we all used and abused for that many years. The fancy custom will go straight to the auction block if there is anything left of my estate.
One thing for sure, people that own custom flintlock change, it really changes them.

 

[Mike Brooks]

Never forget getting sounded out by someone on my gear...

I get so tired of it...and there are a few here on the MLF but not as bad as it once was.
It seems any opportunity is taken to try and appear "knowledable" of some area...like what they've learned about muzzleloading by reading other people's posts represents a body of knowledge for their life's work. Reality is this is nothing more than a hobby that exists at an infinite number of levels for each individual.

The good news is the MLF has a whole section down below that is loaded with historical categories...thats where the HC & PC discussions need to take place...not up here in the open categories. As I'm concerned if and when I want to find out about something that's "HC" or "PC"...I'll ask...don't need or want it otherwise.

As clear as if I heard it just yesterday, I'll never forget one of the first posts I made about a TC Hawken I'd just bought to refinish and got the typical: "Ya know, that thing's not historically correct" !! Followed of course by the typical 50 post thread unfolding with all the "other HC knowledgeable folks" taking their turns to ensure everybody else knew they also knew a TC Hawken wasn't HC.

And what was really laughable was that I already knew it wasn't, and never made out like it was.
:grin:

I prefer things on this board the way they used to be, there was alot of very good information freely given by some of the most studied authorities on the subject. But, they have all been run off now. I gotta say, I rarely post these days as most of the subject matter is incredibly boring and geared towards beginers.....

 

[rich pierce]

No reason for anyone to feel superior or looked down upon because of the gun they carry. Plenty of other good reasons for that! :rotf: (that was supposed to be a joke)

There are always discussions about historical accuracy versus not, custom versus production,etc. Eventually somebody joins in who has felt insulted somehow. Bottom line is anyone would be foolish to spend good money to satisfy someone else.

 

[longbow1]

I am one of the NEW ONES you are talking about I came to this forum to learn a few things as all of us newbe's .It's ashame how new people are talked about on this forum this tread I was not lucky enough to be born with all the answers to ML and I am sorry this destresses you so but we are here and I don't think we are going anywhere Because with out us you got nothing to talk about what are people who know every thing going to talk about to each other. We have to learn the ways of this forum how it operates you guys have been a long time and I am sure that you were newb's at one time have you forgotten how it use to be when you started and did you have this forum when you all started how did you learn. :surrender: :youcrazy:

 

[Stumpkiller]

As for your instant heirloom, I can assure you, the kids will fight over the TC Hawken caplock that I (dad, grandpa) got in the early 1970's, which we all used and abused for that many years. The fancy custom will go straight to the auction block if there is anything left of my estate.
One thing for sure, people that own custom flintlock change, it really changes them.

You never read me post anything about an heirloom. I have no kids and no prospects of any. I'm using up the world and leaving waste and desolation behind. :wink:

 

[rabjr]

I don't think Mike has any problem with anyone willing to learn as he freely offers sage advice. He however has a problem with those who just don't seem to get it. :v

 

[tg]

"I prefer things on this board the way they used to be, there was alot of very good information freely given by some of the most studied authorities on the subject."

Good point Mike, if one tries to cover all the aspects of a particular gun when asked about the gun when the Traditionl/HC/PC info is mentioned some burr up and get upset I realy think this is a matter of the fact that many are really into ML's and many are just satisfied to go hunting with something that loads from the front and would be as happy with an &^%-line but use the production guns as the other type are taboo here and many like this forum wheter it reflects their true level of ML interest or not, this is shown by the many posts on modern bullets and sights which is OK as not everyone should be expected to recognize or be interested in the historical side of the sport.What is interesting to me are those who are asking a lot of basic questions in August and answering every topic that comes up in October with a lot of "veteran sounding" advice.

 

[wy0mn]

You never read me post anything about an heirloom. I have no kids and no prospects of any. I'm using up the world and leaving waste and desolation behind. :wink:

I think you are my guru, gonna waste the place! :rotf:

 

[matt denison]

410-er came on the forum and asked a question. (remember that?) If ten people respond you should expect ten different points of view. Your point of view is as valid as mine or anyone else'. If you have a production gun and like it then say so and explain why. If you prefer a custom then say so and explain why. Answer the question, that's all.

 

[rabjr]

It's a sad fact, far to many times the original question gets lost in muck and quagmire...

 

[Mike Brooks]

I have really been battling the custom bug virus.Thinking now for about 2 yrs.What are some reasons to choose custom over production?Accuracy,Looks,Etc.? :idunno: Thinking of a 45cal.flinter.

Ok then , I'll answer the question, but I'm sure it will raise hckles, so I'm not sure there's a point. :idunno:
A custom, properly built by a known maker will retain it's value and increase in value the longer you have it. A production gun will loose it's value as soon as you buy it and never be worth much.(usually). That being said, I buy some production gunsevery now and then when I find them cheap and turn them over for a profit. In either case, buy wisely and you'll always come out ahead. As maany collectors have told me, "buy what you like at the right price and you'll always come out ahead".

 

[longbow1]

I think I understand that and I may have gone off the deep end somewhat but if you new people come to this site all the time it's what makes the site so interesting, different people , and at some time or another we were all in the same shoes. Wanting the site like it was before all these new people came here is tough pill for a newb. Doesn't make you feel liked here and go away.

 

[matt denison]

.."Doesn't make you feel liked here and go away. "

I've been here for ..what..? 8 years? and they still don't like me :rotf: I'm politically incorrect, say it like it is. One guy here in particular doesn't like me at all 'cause I bust him all the time. He deserves it.

If you ask a question you have to be able to handle the answer whether it is what you want to hear or not. There are some knowledgable people on this forum and some not so. Reader beware or the noise and misinformation, defensive attitudes, will run you off. Think "water off a ducks back".

 

[ebiggs1]

"You never read me post anything about an heirloom."

Although you were the reason I responded as I did, you were not the one that made the comment about instant heirloom. I apologize for any misunderstanding there.
But bottom line is and always will be, beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
Again I am sorry if I offended you in any way.

 

[ebiggs1]

I don't think Mike has any problem with anyone willing to learn as he freely offers sage advice. He however has a problem with those who just don't seem to get it. :v

Get what?
Is Mr. Brooks way the only way? And if we don’t abide with it, he’s not going to play anymore? I answered the original poster as honestly as I could from my point of view. You and Mr. Brooks may have a different one but certainly not the only one.

 

[longbow1]

Like I said earlier I am not going away anytime soon I have really thick skin. :wink: