Custom vs Production

[hanshi]

I've taken more deer than I can easily remember with a very cheap Traditions percussion. My little Crockett is an accurate and wonderful little squirrel rifle. I still have a couple of other factory percussions one of which I've for 45 years. T/C, Traditions, pedersoli,etc; they will generally give very good service.

There a few problems with them, however. For one thing prices for new factory guns are way out of line. Another thing is that foreign makers don't seem to be consistently able to manufacture decent flint lock; it might work; it might not. Quality is so so and they are not historically accurate replicas. And they depreciate badly.

You can get a custom gun for about the same price, or a little more, than a top of the line Pedersoli for instance. TVM was mentioned and their guns are hand made from a blank piece of wood and the prices will surprise you. There are a number of other custom builders (along with TVM) that can build you a gun for $1000 to $3000 that will be made to your dimensions and with wood, barrel, lock and style of your choosing. The factory won't do that. They are heirlooms to be passed down through your family. The barrels will be unmarked except for the name of the builder.

The wait can be as short as a few months, in many cases. The builder's names that keep popping up keep popping up for a reason; they are craftsmen and artists and their work is above reproach.

No, a nice SMR won't kill game any better than a T/C or cheap import; but that's not the whole story. If you think of a flintlock rifle as merely a tool and nothing else, an overpriced import will certainly suffice. On the other hand if you're wanting a custom fitted heirloom built by a master, well...

I have both and they each have earned their place on my rack. Guess which ones get used the most?

 

[gizamo]

If you look at the price point of a modern Italian custom gun....it's finally reached a level that makes no sense. You can have a nice semi-custom gun for little more. That extra couple of hundred dollars will hold value, even in a recession such as this.

There are some very fine Semi makers out there. TVM, Caywood, etc...immediately come to mind.

For historical correctness, some even offer guns made without modern style TH liners.

Never forget getting sounded out by someone on my gear...While he was holding a gun with a stainless steel TH Liner... :hmm:

Funny bunch, us MLer's....

 

[shootemup]

Never forget getting sounded out by someone on my gear...While he was holding a gun with a stainless steel TH Liner... :hmm:

Funny bunch, us MLer's....

:haha: I'm with ya, been there...

 

[roundball]

Never forget getting sounded out by someone on my gear...

I get so tired of it...and there are a few here on the MLF but not as bad as it once was.
It seems any opportunity is taken to try and appear "knowledable" of some area...like what they've learned about muzzleloading by reading other people's posts represents a body of knowledge for their life's work. Reality is this is nothing more than a hobby that exists at an infinite number of levels for each individual.

The good news is the MLF has a whole section down below that is loaded with historical categories...thats where the HC & PC discussions need to take place...not up here in the open categories. As I'm concerned if and when I want to find out about something that's "HC" or "PC"...I'll ask...don't need or want it otherwise.

As clear as if I heard it just yesterday, I'll never forget one of the first posts I made about a TC Hawken I'd just bought to refinish and got the typical: "Ya know, that thing's not historically correct" !! Followed of course by the typical 50 post thread unfolding with all the "other HC knowledgeable folks" taking their turns to ensure everybody else knew they also knew a TC Hawken wasn't HC.

And what was really laughable was that I already knew it wasn't, and never made out like it was.
:grin:

 

[bob4st]

...having read all the posts, I completely agree with both of Roundballs' posts :thumbsup: ...... that being said, I also think you might want to consider purchasing a less expensive production gun first to get the "feel" and then followup with a custom after you've done some research and are more confident with the characteristics you want or need...

 

[Twisted_1in66]

...having read all the posts, I completely agree with both of Roundballs' posts :thumbsup: ...... that being said, I also think you might want to consider purchasing a less expensive production gun first to get the "feel" and then followup with a custom after you've done some research and are more confident with the characteristics you want or need...

Honestly, as far as longrifles go (not fur-trade era half-stocks),I think it's a waste of money to get a less expensive production gun first. Been there, done that, still regret it. Also NONE of the production longrifles have a swamped barrel which makes a world of difference in the weight, handling, balance and hold-on-target of a longrifle. Just sorry I had to take years to be able to experience it because I spent money on a production gun first. If I'd spent a little more time learning about longrifles before I bought one, I would have saved for another year and done it right on the first try instead of making an initial mistake and saving for another 4 years to get the chance again to do it right.

At least I did get it right on the second try.

Twisted_1in :thumbsup: 66

 

[Stumpkiller]

I'm astonished no one has yet mentioned that a custom rifle or shotgun can be made to fit you. Looks are nice, but a gun that you can choose a target, close your eyes and mount the gun and be pointing or have the sights aligned when you open your eyes is worth quite a bit. I had Cherry built to the same dimensions as my Ithaca/SKB 20 ga. (that is my favorite wing shooting gun).

And the felt recoil is much less if the stock is made to fit you.

 

[rabjr]

I'm astonished no one has yet mentioned that a custom rifle or shotgun can be made to fit you. Looks are nice, but a gun that you can choose a target, close your eyes and mount the gun and be pointing or have the sights aligned when you open your eyes is worth quite a bit. I had Cherry built to the same dimensions as my Ithaca/SKB 20 ga. (that is my favorite wing shooting gun).

And the felt recoil is much less if the stock is made to fit you.

Hmm thought I did...

 

[Stumpkiller]

D'oh! Sorry. No points for Stumpy on reading comprehension.

Too much egg nog.

And . . . I agree!

Like buying a set of false teeth off the shelf vs. having them made to fit your mouth. You can chew with both, but you'll enjoy the latter more.

 

[ebiggs1]

“”¦but you'll enjoy the latter more.”

This and one other statement is what I take offence to.
You have no basis to make that statement since it is up to the individual and really concerns no one else.
The second one is the “instant heirloom” blurb that always comes up in this custom vs. factory. There again it is nobody else’s decision as to whether your gun, factory or custom, is a family heirloom.
Custom owners get caught up in the mantra of their choice and the beauty (HC/PC) of their choice. Little else matters?

 

[tg]

Roundball makes a good point though when one asks what about a particular ML the PC/HC factor is part of any evaluation due to the nature of the product (type of gun from the past)as is quality, service/reputation of maker, warrenty and other issues, all should be addressed and the potential buyer can use what they require for making their own choices.I know of several people who have purchase a ML assuming it was "correct" for a time/place only to find out it was not, all do not require any history related info so they can just ignore that part of the evaluation.

 

[nkbj]

I have really been battling the custom bug virus.Thinking now for about 2 yrs.What are some reasons to choose custom over production?Accuracy,Looks,Etc.? :idunno: Thinking of a 45cal.flinter.

If you're gonna...don't go half. Choose a builder that knows his craft, go visit him, consult and be measured.

 

[rabjr]

Damn, GoodCheer, you have the start of a great poem there. :thumbsup:

 

[Coot]

If you're gonna...don't go half. Choose a builder that knows his craft, go visit him, consult and be measured.[/quote]

For Swampy:


If you're gonna...don't go half
Choose a builder who knows his craft

Go visit, consult and be measured
A fine gun will leave you pleasured



(I tried but obviously I was not a english major) :haha:

 

[rabjr]

:haha: Hell you did better than I could. :thumbsup:

 

[Dphar]

A production gun is like buying a car.
A decent custom will appreciate usually far above the inflation rate.

Every rifle here is worth about 5 times what it cost new if not more. And they were not cheap then.
One of these has likely shot 10000 rounds and killed a LOT of squirrels as well.
One of these is from the late 50s, one he was laying out the stock when Kennedy died.
Dan

 

[Bob J]

If you're gonna...don't go half. Choose a builder that knows his craft, go visit him, consult and be measured.

For Swampy:


If you're gonna...don't go half
Choose a builder who knows his craft

Go visit, consult and be measured
A fine gun will leave you pleasured

Charge the bore, prime the pan, then take careful aim and fire,

Breathe deep the smoke, then exhale,
the custom rifle in your hands you will certainly admire...

:haha:
[/quote]

 

[rabjr]

:haha: :thumbsup:

 

[zimmerstutzen]

For all the hoopla over some guns. I have to disagree about whether a deer is any deader because of the gun it was shot with. While TC's may have better lock geometry with their new design and s bit more reliable than the early ones. Custom guns sometimes fail to spark or just flash in the pan, do they do so as often as production guns. Heck no. Would you want a heart surgeon that lost 1% of his patients, or one that lost 5%. Same for muzzleloaders. I had an early TC flinter, so did my brother. My POS CVA was more reliable. I still own and shoot some TC guns. But not their flinters.

A well tuned quality made flint lock is an incredible precision machine. Mine go off almost as fast as a centerfire gun. No click shhhhhhh boom, just boom.

While barrels on custom guns tend to be inherently more accurate, the locks are the major point. A personalized fit is a plus. Production guns can be quite good, but their flint locks tend to be the weak links.

 

[peter hawbaker]

I dont hunt much with production guns anymore, mostly using custom longrifles now, but I have a flintlock TC Renegade that has accounted for 13 deer. It has the old style lock, but it is just as reliable as my Haines longrifle with Chambers deluxe Siler lock. It is hard on flints, the old style cock slams the flint into the frizzen face at nearly a right angle, but with a good hard frizzen and english flints, it is very reliable. I scrimped and saved to buy it back when I was a teenager, $195.00 was a lot of money to me back then. A custom was so far out of the question back then to be laughable, but that TC put a lot of venison in the freezer.