CVA Gobbler shotgun

[rayb]

here's the results of first tests of my CVA gobbler:

TEST 1
load:
85 gr ffg goex
over powder cardboard card (no cushion wad)
90 gr volume equivalent 7 1/2 shot (measured with my powder measure)
over shot card
CCI magnum cap

25 shots at 16 yard trap house

it really does seem to have a good pattern and will smoke the clay pigeons to nothing.

LOTS of hang fires, worse than my worst flintlocks ever were. clack, poof, boom (maybe).

several occasions hammer struck the cap without setting the cap off. it always fired the second hammer strike.

several caps fired without setting off the charge.

SO: corrective actions will be:

1. thorough cleaning with lots of very hot / boiling water to remove oils, junk, whatever was accumulated
2. try a different nipple, probably the hot shot type
3. try different caps on the issued nipple, (don't think much of this idea)
4. Pull the lock and see if i can shim the hammer spring some to get a stronger strike on the cap.
5. put some kind of insert into the hammer face, probably a filed out piece of steel, to be sure the hammer is striking the cap completely.

I think the hammer spring is very weak, it just sort of clacks down, doesn't snap with any kind of authority onto the nipple. cleaning may help some of the hang fires, but not the failure to ignite the cap. Gun looks ok, points ok; if you can get it to go off it has a good pattern and really smokes the clay pigeons.

in short, good pattern, poor ignition, disappointing overall

SECOND TRY:

corrective actions taken:

1. thorough cleaning, degreasing
2. switched to pyrodex to see if it was true that it burned cleaner, and because i had a bunch given to me that i needed to use up
3. put a shim under the end of the hammer spring to try and strengthen the hammer strike
4. installed uncle mike hot shot nipple vs. one that was on it


Load:
85 gr Pyrodex RS, of uncertain vintage
1 over powder cardboard card (no cushion type wad used)
1 1/8 oz 71/2 shot (actually 90 gr by volume with my powder measure)
1 over shot card

wiped between shots, dry cloth patch wrapped around a brass brush
dry patch cleaned to eliminate any oil in the barrel/chamber

popped two caps to be sure fire path was clear

temp in low 40's. 25 mph winds with gusts

RESULTS:

first 4 clay birds pulverized. good strong hits. missed 5th, slight hang fire, definite hang fire on 6th, had to snap hammer twice to get 7th to fire. 8th round would not fire at all, even after cleaning nipple, cleanout screw removed and cleaned out, multiple caps popped.

Pulled 8th load. could not blow air through the barrel and out the nipple holes.

back to the house, lots of heated water and cleaned barrel again.

corrective action (besides thorough cleaning):

cut a coat hanger stuck it in the barrrel to determine the length from muzzle to the back of the patten breech. measured the distance from the front breech face to the back of the patten breech. took a 5/8" dowel rod, drove a nail in the end. cut the nail to length from breech face to back of patten breech. this makes a cleanout tool for the patten breech hole. my assumption was that the wiping of the barrel between shots was jamming loose gunk into the fire hole in the patten breech.

so i will modify the wiping procedure or maybe eliminate it altogether, and use the special rod to insure that the passage between nipple and powder is clear between shots.

Keep the same loads.

try again

again, good pattern, really smoked the clay birds, but after 4 shots the ignition problems began anew. Based on 2 tests, the problem is to get the cleaning / wiping procedures worked out, so that the gun will work reliably for a string of 25 shots.

testing continues.

rayb

a covey of clay pigeons is safe from me unless they fly up one at a time at 3 minute intervals... then they still may be safe until i get this worked out ::

 

[Rebel]

I had a CVA Trapper and had the same kind of ignition problems with it that you are having. I finally sold it and got a Navy Arms double barrel .12 ga. Never have any ignition problems with it unless i don't pop a cap on the nipples before loading or use an alcohol soaked patch to get all the oil out of the bore and let some of it run out through the nipples to clear the oil out of them. The double barrel is as fast shooting as my Mossberg pump. No delay at all. Not sure what will help you with the Trapper. I tried Hot Shot nipple and still had the problem. I think it is a design flaw in the breech.

 

[Bob J]

Rebel-
Wouldn't running some pipe cleaners through the flash channels clean it as well as popping caps? Seems to work on my Pedersoli double.

 

[Blue Smoke]

On my CVA I had one Hammer that wasn't hitting true on the Nipple,got that fixed,haven't had anymore problems.

Blue Smoke

 

[Rebel]

Probably would, i just find it easier to pop a cap on each nipple before loading.

 

[shotgunner]

ray b

make sure flash channel is clear for starters (fire 2 caps and run nipple pick afterwards

load black powder and keep hammer at 1/2 cock

give the lock/receiver a good slap so powder gets down where it needs to be before finishing load (this is very important I've found)

I generally use 1-1/4 oz shot and equal volumne of powder in my trapper. Only hang-fire I ever had was a warm day and the crisco felt wad lube migrated into charge . . .

nice little rabbit gun the "trapper"

shotgunner
:thumbsup:

 

[riarcher]

sounds very familiar!
Drill out the nipples and ise Magnum caps exclusively - End of problem. :m2c:

 

[Hoyt]

My T/C sidelock shotgun came with a no.11 nipple and a musket cap nipple..can you get a musket cap nipple?

 

[rayb]

don't know about that..
the gun was made in spain & uses odd nipple threads. will research it....

thanks

rayb

 

[wild willy]

I use a can of compressed air to blow out the nipples I still fire a cap before loading but with the air you can tell if they are open

 

[rayb]

now that's a very good idea...

rayb

 

[rayb]

Third test results:

CVA Gobbler 12 gauge shotgun, single barrel, chocked
?modified? or ?full?

same load as 2nd try: 85 gr RS pyrodex, 90 gr volume equivalent 7 1/2 shot (& a few with # 8), 1 over powder card, 1 overshot card. Initially CCI magnum caps.

altered the cleaning wiping procedure:
Wiped with alcohol rag before start, popped two caps
1. wiped after each shot with rubbing alcohol moistened patch not wet, just barely damp
2. use nail in end of stick tool to be sure hole in the patent breech was clear
3. used can of "computer air" & blew out the nipple with the barrel pointed down. got some residue every time i did this
3. loaded as above
4. shot at the clay pigeon

Basically eliminated the hang fires. Thanks to wild willy for the idea to use compressed air can. Did get 2 slight delays at the very end of a 25 bird trap string. My guess is i need to pull nipple and cleanout screw after 15 or so sounds and cotton swab out a little bit before continuing.

PROBLEMS WITH CAPS: Hat 3 caps fail to fire on first hammer fall. All 3 fired on second hammer fall. These were CCI Magnum caps. The miss fires came after 5 or 6 shots. Switched to Remington number 11 caps, never had another miss fire. So apparantly CCI magnum caps may be hotter or whatever, but it takes a stronger hammer stroke to set them off. The Remingtons evidently either:
a: fit the nipple better (Uncle Mike's hot shot)
b: are make of thinner metal and are easier to set off with the sort of weak hammer fall of the gun, not sure which.

SUMMARY:
1. Use rubbing alcohol instead of soap or oil based cleaner between shots
2. Use Remington caps (at least the batch i had on hand) instead of CCI Magnum
3. clean breech with nail stick after every shot
4. blow thru nipple to clear nipple -patent breech-powder charge channel after every shot
5. pull nipple & cleanout screw after 15 rounds & wipe clean

testing continues, but things seem to be getting better

final score 15 of 25 clay pigeons from 16 yard line, standard trap range setup. If i swing correctly and get on the birds quickly, the thing absolutely pulverizes the targets.

:results:

rayb