daisies double

ok guys ahhhhhhhhh this is the first time I have tried this and you all know my spelling an punctuation is bad so please read past it ,,,, here we go
A few months back a friend of mine said Charlie ,,, have you ever built a double gun and that started the ball a Rollin .
now i cant say this enough if you plan on doing this get bill brockways book "recreating the double barrel muzzle loading shot gun as there is alot more to it then i will print here .

Step one was to find a stock . Fred mountain name AKA daisy the travelin man

 

[Dave Poss]

That's BEAUTIFUL!!!!! :redthumb: From tree trunk to art....what a project! I can't even make a pretty handle out of a small limb to fit my hawk. Thanks for the photos....I REALLY feel inadequet now! :crackup: :crackup: Let us know how she shots.

 

well fred couldnt wait so we loaded up 1 1/2 oz of #7 shot using paper for wading and went out back and capped her off his smile was sooooo big his ears disappeared lol. i patterned it last week and it has a very good pattern at 30 yards

 

[Bill Brockway]

Charlie -

That is as beautiful a description of building a double from scratch as I have ever seen. And the photos are spectacular. Of course, I am prejudiced, but I also appreciate your plugging the book, too. It gives me a real jolt of pleasure to have somebody like yourself take the book and use it to build a gun from scratch. My congratulations to you.

I have seen one original gun built with the breechplugs rounded beyond the barrels as yours are. This was a German or Austrian gun (forget which), and the builder had filed a dumbell-shaped piece of steel to slide between the plugs, filed to provide extensions of the top and bottom ribs. It seemed to me that this would be entirely too much filing, so I've never tried to do it.

My congratulations to you on a fine looking gun. I know you and your friend will get a lot of enjoyment out of it.

Bill

 

[Zonie]

Great job Captchee!! Both the gun and the article about how to do it. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

 

Mr. Brockway ,,,Sir
first off i want to think you joining us and welcome you to our little forum . we could use your "as well as the other well known builders i know that come here but stay quite" input on many things .
i also want to thank you for your comments on my poor attempt at emulating your work . I am humbled and honored sir by your remarks .

A couple questions if I may, I meant to send you an e-mail as of to this but maybe here would be the best place to ask .
One is to breech design
I have a couple very old early percussion model barrels , one I have most of the complete gun but in very poor shape and the other has a blown breach area on one side .
anyway the breeches in this long set do not have seats . Maybe a better description would be that the barrels are threaded Damascus tube and the breeches themselves screw inside the barrels and flush.
. The barrels do not appear to have been cut down at any time and have the original Belgian proof marks on the bottoms.

So my question is was this common and if so how did the breech seal?

Second and lastly the barrels I used on this 12 gage where laminated steal. When I polished them and then did your acid trick the patter really came out , however after browning it never did . I used LM and diluted it to X20 as you suggested .
Was the problem in that I acid burned the whole barrel prior to browning ???? Or is it that I just did not dilute the laurel mountain enough ?
Will the twist come out with age or have we just learned a valuable lesson.

Once again I thank you for your time sir and if you ever put you writing out in hard back I would like to be one of the first to purchase
Once again very informative book

 

[Bill Brockway]

Captchee -

Once again, thank you for the kind words. I'm not too sure I understand the question about breech design, but I'll give it a try. Most of the guns I have seen have a very definite shoulder at the bottom of the threads in the barrels, and the plugs snug up at two places, one at the bottom of the threads, and the other at the outside end of the barrels, where there is a shoulder on the breechplugs. Sometimes the shoulder inside the barrels is not very wide, and may have disappeared due to burn-out in the breech area, but (so far as I know) it is always there. Several years ago, one of the modern makers of double guns(can't remember who) made their doubles with breech plugs that were completely screwed into the barrels, with no plug visible outside of the ends of the barrels, similar to a hook breech Hawken. The nipple holes were drilled and threaded right through the barrel into the plug. It was a pretty clunky looking design, and one that must have had old Joe Manton spinning in his grave.

The browning method I am using now is a process developed by Dr. Oscar Gaddy, a university professor from Illinois. Briefly, it works as follows:

1 - Polish the barrels to 400 grit or finer (400 is usually enough). If you have tested the barrels with acid, this area will have to be polished bright again, before proceeding.

2 - Apply a diluted solution of Laurel Mountain Forge Browner (see below).

3 - Hang barrels in a warm, humid location until a coating of rust forms (may take 4 hours to overnight, depending on temperature and humidity).

4 - Dip rusted barrel in a 15% solution of Radio Shack circuit board etchant in water (I keep a capped piece of 3" PVC pipe as a dipping tank). Dip for no longer than 5 seconds (important)!

5 - Immediately after dipping, flush barrels clean with a garden hose and lots of water. I do this outside my shop in the yard. It is important to stop the etchant from working any longer than 5 or 10 seconds.

6. - Card (scrub down barrels) with medium steel wool under water. This will make the pattern begin to appear.

7 - Repeat steps 2 through 6 until the barrels are dark enough to suit you. This may take a lot of passes, maybe as many as 8 or 10.

In step 2, dilute the LMF with 2 parts water for the 1st pass only. The next couple of passes can be 5 parts water to 1 part LMF. After that, the remaining passes can be 8 - 10 parts water to 1 part LMF. I no longer use the browner diluted any more than this - the dip in Radio Shack etchant serves to remove the rust from the white striations without affecting the brown striations.

http://www.hunt101.com/img/157876.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/157878.jpg
http://www.hunt101.com/img/155180.JPG

Hope this helps, Bill

 

i will be sure to use this method on the next double i do "which i believe will be real soon "

the barrels i speak of have a built up area that the nipple sets on . the breech plug screw completely inside the barrels and have no mating serfaces outside nor any inside that i can see almost like a peice of pipe that has inside threads .
the face of the plugs are notched to make a channel from the nipple an it appears that ounce the nipples are in place you couldnt remove the breeches ,, this is how far that the niples come into the breech.

only reason i ask was i had never seen breeches this way, didnt seem like to good of an idea

 

[KyFlintlock]

You guys are awesome.

 

Very nice indeed, Captchee, very nice inceed.
: Tell me, how long is the plug's threaded section? Do the plug's threads run from the breech of the original barrel, for the full length of the original chamber that was there, or were the original barrels shortened to produce a shorter plug? That is, are they 2 3/8" to 3" total length of thread, depending on whether it had 2", 2 1/2" or 2 3/4" chambers?
: If that's the case, the 'chamber' hole to the cap's flash would be long indeed, and have considerable capacity if 3/8" to 4/10" in dia. It might also be difficult to clean properly. I have heard of doing them this way, but felt that shortening, would be better, overall.

 

well
ahhh im guessing your speaking of the old barrels .the breech plugs are not improved and about3/4 to 1 inch i think.
as to the plugs on daisies.
The breeches are turned and threaded for the full length of the chamber and depth of the forcing cone .
Now this is also to say that the back ends of the breech is left long so they have a total length of 6 inches 3 inches threaded .
Once this is done I cut the 1 3/4 of the chambers and measure the new depth and then cut the threaded end to that depth + 3/8. Making the breeches this long allows you plenty of material to seat the breech face to the taper of the forcing cone and seat the breech without having to worry about lining up the hooks on the breeches . It also allows you to keep the original length of the barrels as the ends of the breechs now replace the amount of the chambers you cut off. Once you have the breaches faces and set you can now cut in the hooks .
I then took the breechs out and center drilled as bill suggested with a 5/16 drill thus making them improved and having a chamber of 1 3/8 deep . I must admit this long of a powder chamber concerned me somewhat but has proven to not cause a problem during a days shooting . It also cleans very will at the end of the day . i does also give you a 70 grain minumum charge but that seems to patern very well in these barrels